📚 Node [[fellowship of the link]]

📓 garden/flancian/Fellowship of the Link.md by @flancian ️🔗 ✍️

Beautiful!
- [[John Perry Barlow]]

📓 garden/flancian/fellowship of the link.md by @flancian ️🔗 ✍️

a [[community]].
- #chat https://chat.collectivesensecommons.org/agora/channels/ogm-fellowship-of-the-link
  - #doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RAourQe_MKh0uWomLsS_V5ea3zm30g8paE49X56jIHs/edit
  - #pull [[fotl]]
  - #pull [[sje]]
  - #pull [[building bridges]]
  - [[interop of chat]]
  - [[interop of links]]
a [[meet]].
- [[19 utc]] on [[wednesday]]
- #go https://meet.jit.si/fellowship-of-the-link
- #log [[fotl chat]]

📓 garden/rel8/Fellowship of the Link.md by @rel8 ️🔗 ✍️

Fellowship of the Link

This subgroup of OGM spun out of a few impromptu Zoom calls with folks who place high value on permalinks, open data sharing, and other ways that our information Commons might be made more useful and accessible.

These calls are pretty geeky and take place every Wednesday. Ping Jerry if you’d like to be added.

📓 stoa/doc.anagora.org/fellowship+of+the+link.md by @anonymous@doc.anagora.org ✍️

📓 stoa/doc.anagora.org/fellowship-of-the-link.md by @anonymous@doc.anagora.org ✍️

Fellowship of the Link

a [[meeting]].
- #go https://meet.evolix.org/fellowship-of-the-link
- #calendar https://plex.collectivesensecommons.org/calendar/
- #when Wednesdays at ct[[6PM UTC]]
Attending: [[x]], [[y]]
Start recording, we’re currently using Jitsi and that works best with a [[Chromium]] based browser.
Threads from last time we would like to pick up:
- [[high leverage opportunities]] we can spot
- [[generative commons]]
  - [[generative linking]] (inferring links)
  - [[general commons agreement]] https://bra.in/8qeNWy
- [[wishlist]] approach to worldbuilding
- [[Jerry Michalski]] let’s discuss: note sharing.
  - [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] let’s discuss conventions? Added something in [[massive wiki]].
    - volunteered https://tftmap.massive.wiki/map/aram_zucker-scharff
- [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] would like to generalize the archiving tool / link card generator he’s been working on.
- [[Flancian]] would like to discuss [[Interwiki]] links and the [[common hub]] approach for search and entity resolution
- [[SJ]] wants to discuss / address this at hacking days at Wikimania in August (you’re all invited to Singapore ;) https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Wikimania
- Build a timeline of links shared in these calls using Aram’s tool.
#push [[fotl threads]]
- define:
  - [[wiki]] / root URL
  - /now
  - [[issue tracker]] / [[project tracker]] URL
    - [[github]] by default?

[[2025-06-18]]

[[Flancian]] showed up and also missed others :) Caught up with Samuel’s note from last month, looks very interesting! Will reach out.
Some thoughts going on my head
- I still want to do something about Free Jerry’s Brain later this year :)
- I’d love to define a project of sorts the fellowship could work on async?
Miscellaneous news
- Mastodon’s Terms of Service update raised a stink in the Fediverse

[[2025-05-XX]]

[[Jerry Michalski]] and [[Flancian]] discussed projects :)

[[2025-05-07]]

[[SJ]]: missing you all :) Congrats to Jerry on the new site launch.
- Expanding a generative data commons w/ Mozilla + HF + Flickr; should connect w/ some of you about it
- Wikimedia is looking for a new ED, to start in January.
- US Wiki chapter is starting to do more portraiture @ events, via https://WikiPortraits.org — event suggestions welcome

[[2025-04-23]]

[[Peter Kaminski]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] [[Flancian]]
[[Peter Kaminski]]:
- was a videogame developer in the 80s (!)
  - 4kb/8kb
  - intellivision
    - 16 bit processor (!)
    - but 10 bit rom
  - 2600
  - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG9KmWgn24I
- looked at [[pico 8]] recently
- [[raspberry pi]]:
  - https://gokrazy.org/
[[Aram]]: focused on work this week.
[[Flancian]]:
- GenAI at work
- hackathon
https://ai-2027.com/

[[2025-04-09]]

[[Shawn Murphy]] [[Flancian]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
Ahoy! Introductions :)
- Shawn in Canada
  - Has been WFH for ~20y.
  - [[noosphere]] / [[thinker toys]]
  - https://noosphere.org/blog/simply-insoluble/
  - Interested in visualizers
    - [[huviz]]: https://smurp.github.io/huviz/
- Aram in NYC
[[Hypergraphs]]
- [[category theory]] and connection to topology
- [[a rosetta stone]]: https://via.hypothes.is/https://arxiv.org/pdf/0903.0340.pdf
- [[hypergraph categories]]
[[timeline]] visualizations (Aram’s work)
- https://context.center/timeline/covid/
- Q: [[http]] extension that aids archival/supports serving old versions?
- Shawn: on versioning in general, attribution, provenance tracking.
  - Would love to see the code!
  - Aram: don’t remember this extension; am reminded of a DOM extension for offering e.g. archival copies for linked resources that can’t be retrieved anymore.
  - Shawn: that seems like it could be a browser extension.
- archive.org spec for time travel
  - [[memento api]]: https://context.center/topics/memento/
Another web extension :) Annotations?
- Are they enough for a revolutionary change?
[[cognitive, evolutionary revolution]]
- All the ideas "locked" in people’s heads results in substandard connectivity.
- definition of [[residues]]: all non-semantic communication, in the sense of the artifacts resulting from attempts at communication.
- objective: merging mental models (as we wish).
- [[mmm]] ~ [[merged mental model]]
- www is full of speech acts
- Shawn: [[ponder]]
- [[world problematique]]
- https://uia.org/archive/ency-strategies-comm-6-1
- we need to stand up an [[egregore]] to

[[2025-04-02]]

Ahoy!
[[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Flancian]]
[[Jerry]] will be in Berlin next week!
- April has a speaking engagement
[[Aram]] is in high resolution today!
- Rube Goldbering (?) in an NYC flat
"Liberation day" (?)
- Because of the incoming tariffs
- Why did we let the right coopt ‘liberation’ and ‘revolution’?
Flancian: Can we use the Commons to fight back/build better?
- [[Jerry]]: preparing something, a podcast associated with the substack.
  - On what Musk/DOGE are doing.
  - One of the deficits of the left is the lack of self-critique.
  - Can we focus on making the world better beyond political divides?
  - As things get broken, people will need alternatives.
  - [[substack]]: [[rethink constraints]] https://rethinkconstraints.substack.com/
  - [[podcast]]: [[rethink the future]]
- [[Aram]] nice throughput!
- [[Aram]] studies show that in some conditions glossiness of presentation can backfire; e.g. for vaccine information, some people believe "professional looking" sites less than amateur ones.
- [[Jerry]]: about an app called [[XyWrite]] XyWrite Wikipedia
Backlog
- Thinkers that seemed amenable to "go beyond the divide"
- [[Murray Bookchin]]:
  - [[Aram]]: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/murray-bookchin-janet-biehl-the-murray-bookchin-reader
  - [[Flancian]]: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/murray-bookchin-next-revolution
  - [[Jerry]]: Types of Anarchism https://bra.in/4q5zKj
    - on [[temporary hierarchies]]
- [[Heather Marsh]] // [[Binding Chaos]]
  - [[knowledge bridges]]
  - [[stigmergy]]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigmergy
    - https://bra.in/5vBPrW
    - [[stigmergic collaboration]]
[[Jerry]] doing prioritization
- Dialing down sync meetings on [[Free Jerry’s Brain]], [[Neobooks]]
- But still working on Neobooks — trying to focus more on the deliverables.
On our "[[murder boards]]" (what a name): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_board
- What’s the ideal software?
- Something close to Zettelkasten but with a visual/2d component
- [[Jerry]]: a friend is doing https://sublime.app/
More stealth notes from [[SJ]]
- working on a Common Knowledge subset of the global knowledge index: all permissively-licensed works. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1X4Gy9fv53N8PUO5KgYFwL3Yo1TRtOQ1r6YjFiR4o14c/edit?tab=t.0
- Could use help with:
  - improving SOTA classifiers for topics; language; license
  - improving graph-extractors for mapping documents to CC0 [[mesh]]es of claims. https://arxiv.org/abs/2502.19413
  - improving QLever as best available upgrade for Wikidata backend
  - divide-and-conquer implementing the above at web scale: developing a way to split up and do a bit of the processing at a time, incrementally updating the index.
  - making and running benchmarks for the above
- also working on training better frontier-adjacent models, with Pleias, based on this data https://pleias.fr/
- helping IA Europe search for 1-2 technical staff for their Amsterdam office

[[2025-03-26]]

Not today! Stealth editing by [[SJ]] anyhow.
Reminded that wikis need their own go-links and there is hot debate sometimes about who gets shortcuts for user-namespace pages :)
from the Build a Bigger Wiki Dept.
- Calling all indexers: [[SJ]] and [[Public AI Network]] folk working on building the index to a planetary library ~ https://publicai.network/atlas
- Also have new partners for [[Omnipedia]] in the Lam Lab at Stanford who want to feed STORM drafts into the draft-wiki. Experiments in the coming weeks…
love to you all //

[[2025-03-19]]

Attending: [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] [[Flancian]]
Working while in vacation
Training our replacements
Environment at the workplace
- Subscription woes due to owner statements
- Return to office five days a week
Personal projects
- #AZS: [[foursquare]] space. There’s takeout data for the service that they shut down. Spent time to fill in checkins
  - this could support/enable a social feature (through ActivityPub or AtProto)
  - on atproto vs activitypub
    - ActivityPub better for social networking itself
      - [[betula]] example for non-microblogging functionality
      - scaling is still a pain with AP
    - Atproto more sensible in some ways though
      - Like the PDS approach
  - #AZS maybe nostr is the right technical answer, but the community has downsides
    - and at this point social networks just decline
  - Opportunity for "commons first solution that can make use of vault/archive data"
  - in "import/making data useful space":
    - [[promnesia]]
    - [[dogsheep]]
[[atproto]] conference this week

[[2025-03-12]]

Attending: <..>
[[Shawn Murphy]]: https://smurp.com/ presenting!
- http://bootstrap.noosphere.org/#/5
- [[huviz]]: https://huviz.noosphere.org
- [[thinkertoys]] and [[nooviz]]
- supports meta objects/predicts, useful for assertions about the graphs
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_the_Grand_Duchess_Christina
  - https://web.stanford.edu/~jsabol/certainty/readings/Galileo-LetterDuchessChristina.pdf
  - https://disf.org/galileo-lettera-a-madama-cristina-di-lorena (original Italian)
Q&A and comments
- Very cool! Could nooviz be used as a library/embedded for graph/triples/[[TTL]] rendering?
  - Yes!
- Are you thinking of this as a hosted service or a toolkit that people can download and use?
  - Yes to both!
- Content security restrictions / iframe embedding
  - Patched browser that user can specify embedding desired by user
- We should meet!
  - https://smurp.com/meet
- You should review the European Research Council: https://erc.europa.eu/
#PK
- perhaps related, the explanations in "A Thousand Brains: A New Theory of Intelligence", a book authored by Jeff Hawkins
- Hawkins says thought uses older brain mechanics based on physical maps of animals’ grid-based motion in (mostly 2D) space
#JM
- we’ll be able to subject our thinking strategies to evolutionary pressure
- #PK William Calvin describes thought as a process that involves cortical columns dancing in Darwinian selection of which thought to think: https://sites.google.com/view/williamcalvin-org/brains-consciousness
- https://thinkertoys.app/redir/JoinChat

[[2025-02-19]]

Attending: [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]

[[2025-02-12]]

Attending: [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Flancian]]
Fires in [[Altadena]]
- [[Wind maps]]
- Factors for these fires:
  - Unusual driness
  - Winds stronger than usual in this season
  - Building materials
    - Could we build houses that can defend against fire?
Jerry: ice storm coming
- Had a very good speaking month so far!
- Q: any feedback lately? How did it go?
  - Started with talking about possible and impossible
Peter Kaminski
- Two startups!
  - [[YouBots.ai]]
  - AI coaching forum
- On the lowered barrier to entry to coding
  - And regenerating codebases from improved prompts instead of (sometimes) maintaining the code
- F: On the need to annotate generated content ideally going forward, traceability of meaningfulness (?)
  - On losing touch with reality if we don’t do this
  - The examples we already have of people not caring about factfulness
- Midterm elections

[[2025-01-29]]

Attending: [[Mathew Lowry]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] [[Flancian]]
Check ins
On [[atproto]]:
- [[Mathew]] has been looking into it as it relates to possible plans/goals within the EU commission
  - Each [[lexicon]] is a view or an [[app]] in the [[atmosphere]] ([[at-mosphere]]?)
  - Thinking about how to make [[myhub]] an app in the atmosphere.
  - Some of the content in the [[PDS]] could be published in a hub; some in [[Bluesky]].
  - Thinking of e.g. managing notes in Obsidian, and publishing a subset of them through this pipeline.
  - About the question "Is [[Bluesky]] really decentralized"?
    - A conversation that took place mostly in blog posts, but maybe could benefit from consolidating on a wiki.
  - [[Mathew]] and [[Aram]] worked on a doc.
[[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]: a lot going on at work.
- On TPM work and glue work.
- [[glue work]]: https://www.noidea.dog/glue
About the reaction to the new US status quo
- Surveillance of protesters started with the past administration
- The government is allowed to buy data from (commercial) data brokers, which in practice enables warrantless investigations (!)
Moving to Europe:
- Apply for a grant - european research council https://erc.europa.eu/apply-grant
  - For Non-European Researchers:
Check out [[archive box]]: https://archivebox.io/
- Flancian: will tell [[bouncepaw]] about this, he’s developing [[betula]] and wants to add archiving: https://garden.bouncepaw.com/hypha/betula
Results from social.coop about defederating from threads:
- https://www.loomio.com/d/u1OkUA6M/clarity-on-stance-with-regards-to-threads/30 was the vote
- 77% of people voted to suspend
- 11% voted not to suspend (stay at limit)
- 12% abstained
- 0 blocks
- [[Loomio]] is a governance platform
  - [[Bonfire]] is coming along
  - https://wiki.social.coop/wiki/Governance is a good starting point for how Social.coop does things
  - https://wiki.social.coop/wiki/Make_a_proposal
- [[polis]] ~ [[pol.is]] is also in this space

[[2025-01-15]]

Chris Aldrich can’t make it today. still dispdby fires and poor wifi conx.

Attending: [[Mathew Lowry]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Eduardo Ivanec]]
Check ins
- Fires
- Starting the year
Brain being rewritten for the Xth time
Idea: using AI to refactor/rewriting/making old code shinier
- Aram: it’s still far from being autonomous/decouplable. Some experiences with a python codebase it works great, little experiance with Rust as a codebase and it is useless to me.
- Flan: +1 totally.
- On resistance by engineering organizations, and the need for someone with domain expertise to review/validate.
- Mathew: it could work great for transpiling, updating, refining. A company could become an expert in applying genAI in partnership with those who understand the existing product and code.
- A lot of platforms / tools / profiles of labor will mutate with AI use
- On the kind of development processes this unlocks
[[FreeOurFeeds]]:
- https://social.coop/@cwebber has plenty of commentary about this and Bluesky in general
  - [[Spritely]]:
    - https://dustycloud.org/blog/spritely/
    - https://spritely.institute/
- https://myhub.ai/@mathewlowry/?tags=christine+lemmer-webber&types=like&types=do&types=think&timeframe=anytime&quality=all
- https://social.coop/@eloquence/113821768358759243
- Would running extra relays reduce the load on existing ones?
  - We have different understandings
  - On [[shared heaps]]
  - With Bluesky you can remove yourself from the network and take away all your data
On Meta’s policy changes and fallout
- Flan: this sent the Fediverse into a heated reaction, understandably. https://wiki.social.coop/wiki/Federation_with_Threads and https://www.loomio.com/d/u1OkUA6M/clarity-on-stance-with-regards-to-threads/30.
- https://opentermsarchive.org/en/memos/meta-dampens-hate-speech-policy/
- Good five minute video: https://www.facebook.com/zuck/videos/1525382954801931/

[[2024-12-11]]

Attending: [[Matthew Lowry]] [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Chris Aldrich]]
Displaying and/or Owning Bluesky comments
IndieWebCamp this past weekend
- [[typecasting]]: Typing as a UI for posting to the Web.
  - https://typosphere.blogspot.com/
  - https://indieweb.org/typecast
"There are too many blogs and not enough wikis." - M.L.

[[2024-11-20]]

[[Peter Kaminski]] [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Flancian]]
[[Mechanical keyboards]] and [[typewriters]]
[[Selectric hacking]] by the soviets
- [How Soviets used IBM Selectric keyloggers to spy on US diplomats - Ars Technica]( https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/10/how-soviets-used-ibm-selectric-keyloggers-to-spy-on-us-diplomats/
- Project Gunman: https://www.cryptomuseum.com/covert/bugs/selectric/index.htm
[[Peter Kaminski]] startup hacking :)
- Issues with the [[openai sdk]]
- But having fun pair programming :)
[[Chris Aldrich]]
- enjoying the [[topology class]]
[[Bluesky]]
- on reconstructing, maintaining, porting and strenghtening social graphs
- #CA the [[upcoming]] example: https://upcoming.org/, bought back from Yahoo
- #PK the [[del.icio.us]] case
We miss [[RSS]] and [[chat federation]]
#CA idea: [[webmentions]] from the Agora
- also [[refbacks]]
- [[trash drawer]]
- [[Cairo Genizah]]:
  - The Cairo Genizah is a collection of Jewish manuscript fragments discovered in the genizah (storage room) of the Ben Ezra Synagogue in Fustat (Old Cairo), Egypt. These documents, accumulated over a millennium, provide invaluable insights into the social, economic, and religious life of the Jewish community in the medieval Middle East. The genizah was discovered in 1896 and has since been a crucial source for scholars studying Jewish history and culture.
New name for [[massive wiki builder]]?
- Maybe just [[massive builder]]?
- Have you seen https://sutty.nl/en/? They are a coop in this space.

[[2024-11-13]]

[[Jerry Michalski]] [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Flancian]] [[Mathew]]
[[DOGE days]]
[[Fellowship]] topics
- [[Mathew]] trying a procedure for integrating tools and platforms
  - [[Bluesky]]: some open questions
    - Who is backing them now?
  - [[Nostr]]: this week
  - Q: a tour of the socials?
    - trying to look at protocols to see how own ideas would fit
    - focus is [[AI for communities]]
  - Thanks for [[massive wiki]]!
    - Right back at you :)
    - How to theme it?
- [[Peter Kaminski]]:
  - [[Community Discussion Platforms]]: https://peterkaminski.wiki/community_discussion_platforms
  - [[massive wiki]] improvements, including redirecting to a git forge to edit page
    - new version upcoming
      - massivewikibuilder as a Python module (likely with a different name)
      - technically much improved theme, Dolce
  - [[ai coaching forum]]
    - [[Mathew]]: reminded of https://humansplus.ai
  - -> joined a startup! \o/
    - [[youbots.ai]]: beta on Dec 1st, live on Jan 1st
      - building [[gpt for businesses]]
      - USP: do 80% of what you need for much less in some areas; e.g. supplementing your marketing agency.
      - Assist people, not replace people.
- [[Jerry]]:
  - Just back from Montreal, picked up a bug somewhere.
  - April killing it with speeches.
    - [[IASB]] convention and three ways of getting there
      - [[Shawn Kanungo]] was there
  - Will be in [[Melbourne]], [[Brisbane]] -> ([[Iian Neill]] lives there IIRC)
- [[Centaurs]] vs [[Reverse Centaurs]]
  - https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7262457185203372033/
- [[Peter Kaminski]] agora

[[2024-11-06]]

an off the record rehash of election 2024

[[2024-10-30]]

Attending: [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Chris Aldrich]][[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] (11:30) [[Mathew Lowry]] (12:03)
Was "education" in Eisenhower’s phrase "military-industrial complex" in early drafts of his farewell speech?
- yes, apparently so, but as "military-industrial-academic complex"
  - https://disorientation.nu/2017/northeastern-and-the-military-industrial-academic-complex/
  - https://www.routledge.com/University-in-Chains-Confronting-the-Military-Industrial-Academic-Complex/Giroux/p/book/9781594514234
- also apparently "military-industrial-Congressional complex"?
Pete, on In Search of a Nice Team Wiki
- nice wiki for non-geeks: https://bookstackapp.com/
- a commercial system I like better than Notion: https://www.getoutline.com/
https://omnivore.app/ being acquihired and shutting down
The hundred year web service - https://youtu.be/xUfICrkBco4?si=wptuKo8WNQtASiSU
- https://indieweb.org/longevity
- Vs the 100 year WordPress service
  - WordPress problems - https://context.center/topics/wordpress-wpengine-conflict/
Donald J. Trump’s competencies
- Complexity isn’t a Vice: 10 Word Answers and Doubletalk in Election 2016
News Exhaustion
#AZS on sustainability of open source

[[2024-10-23]]

Attending: [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Mathew Lowry]] [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Flancian]] [[Jerry Michalski]]; Late: [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
Alternate notes at: https://hypothes.is/search?q=tag%3A%22Friends%20of%20the%20Link%202024-10-23%22
Check ins
- Mathew: going through checkups
- Peter: back, things are going well
[[Capacities]]: https://www.fastcompany.com/91206311/capacities-app-notion-alternative-note-taking
- Shiny!
- But we’re trying not to look too much into every new tool?
- The issue with exporting/importing (moving "ecosystems")
- What we want from tools in this space (and any space?)
  - [[Data portability]] is key
  - Focus on usability
  - Has full linkability
  - Plus some killer feature?
[[Flancian]]: [[Data portability]]
- Tracking two projects for migrating tweets and other data off Twitter and making it usable elsewhere
- One targets specifically importing them into a Bluesky timeline
- Another targets a [[community archive]]
- [[Chris Aldrich]]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Transfer_Project was a thing
- [[Jerry]] the [[Twitter Refuseniks]] :)
- Where do we want to move to?
  - [[Mathew]]: [[Bluesky]]. Currently working on a [[starter pack]]. Been posting in places but saying ‘go here to interact’.
  - [[Peter]]: where is the lively conversation and how can I be part of that? I’m looking for the best conversations and interactivity. Suspects that people will not actually follow links to engage.
- on the spark of virality
Jerry says: Many People Search for Twitter Alternatives, like Mastodon. but the Pickings Are Slim and Mastodon Is an Imperfect Substitute. https://bra.in/9joXg5
Mathew says: https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:828/format:webp/1*_AOSfuUgfVsGcd5YzyBJyg.png
[[Ruben Verborgh]]
Peter Kaminski says: "Ruben Verborgh – Professor of Decentralized Web Technology" https://ruben.verborgh.org/
Mathew says: https://experiments.myhub.ai/ai4communities_post
- Peter: liked your post
- Chris: read it and took analog notes
  - [[Peter Kaminski]] believes [[Model Collapse]] is a [[nothingburger]]
    - Mathew: but https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07566-y
  - [[Jerry]]: Gray’s post, from the Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20170413225220/http://www.webnerd.me/2009/05/know-and-master-your-social-media-data.html
  - [[Chris Aldrich]]: We have Renaissance humanism from the 1500s. We need to have a dose of Digital humanism in the 2000s.
  - [[Flancian]]: also read (part of) your article and liked it, have been exploring similar ideas. Interested in the Commons as a tool for advancing on different alignment problems.
  - [[Peter Kaminski]]: [[decolonizing AI]] - https://nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-2410/msg00046.html
[[Peter Kaminski]]: on [[synthetic civilizations]] as the endgame
- [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]: agree on scarcity of data will be crucial, we’re already hitting the limits of the data we have.
  - [[Midjourney]] images do revert to a baseline of mediocrity/average when you feed them back into the model a few times
[[Peter Kaminski]]: The synthetic data things i was thinking of are Nemotron (Llama-3.1-Nemotron-70B-Instruct, Nemotron-4 340B by NVIDIA)
- "Nvidia just dropped a new AI model that crushes OpenAI’s GPT-4—no big launch, just big results | VentureBeat"
  - https://venturebeat.com/ai/nvidia-just-dropped-a-new-ai-model-that-crushes-openais-gpt-4-no-big-launch-just-big-results/
- "[[Nemotron]]-4 340B | Research"
  - https://research.nvidia.com/publication/2024-06_nemotron-4-340b
- "[[Synthetic data]]: Fine-tuning LLMs with AI-generated data | SuperAnnotate"
  - https://www.superannotate.com/blog/llm-synthetic-data
#AZS Book on [[open source]]: [[Working in Public]] (2020)
[[Gordon Brander]] on [[nostr]]: https://substack.com/home/post/p-143032514
- Does anyone here believe [[nostr]] will "win", whatever that means?
  - [[Peter Kaminski]] - (following on from Aram) Nostr the protocol is solid, the Nostr community is mostly crypto-focused. You could build a "winning" app on Nostr protocol, but you’d have to do the very substantial work of creating the social fabric and the communities of communities that run on it
https://bra.in/8pWVMY
Meeting notes - https://app.thebrain.com/brain/3d80058c-14d8-5361-0b61-a061f89baf87/f6ea3567-90a0-47c6-b255-df8a4cd2bba9
Bye all! (meeting ended abruptly at 11:59AM Pacific)
- Aram - Bye all!

[[2024-10-09]]

Attending: [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Mathew Lowry]] [[Flancian]]
Check ins
AI output detection
- Genius ‘steganography’/glyph watermarking approach
- c.f. [[trap street]]
context shift
- [[soul]] vs [[breath]] in hebrew, nuances lost when reading translations in a different age
- [[scots wikipedia]]
[[mathew]]: https://experiments.myhub.ai/ai4communities_post
- experimenting with [[notebooklm]]
shared:

[[2024-10-09]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff] [[Flancian]] [[Matthew]]
Flancian: excited about the [[Ekumen]] project
- https://codeberg.org/Ekumen
- context in anagora.org/ekumen
- [[edumerco]], [[bonfire]]
- The FoTL is invited, and flancian will report back progress :)
- On polls vs voting, and how that interacts with democracy
Jerry: [[pol.is]]
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G0v
- https://github.com/compdemocracy/
- [[liquid democracy]]? what happened to it? why isn’t it ‘taking over’?
  - Can you name any country which significantly revamped their governance/state?
    - Iceland almost did, but parliament didn’t approve it
- pol.is had to remove functionality (reply to a thread) to curb abuse
Aram: on [[rent stabilization]] vs [[rent control]]
- [[rent stabilization]] caps the increases in rent to a set percentage (~45% of NYC units)
- [[rent control]] caps the actual rent (1% of NYC units)
Matthew joins! \o/
- What have you been up to?
- Worked on integrating [[ChatGPT]] onto [[MyHub]] — but in the end didn’t find it useful yet
- Now exploring [[model collapse]] and how that interacts with the fact that the web is being flooded by generated content
- [[Jerry]]: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07566-y
- So human generatd content might actually become more valuable in the future
- Would like to learn more about [[bluesky]] and [[nostr]]
- [[Matthew’s post]]: https://experiments.myhub.ai/ai4communities_post
- https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240612-the-people-making-ai-sound-more-human
- https://futurism.com/the-byte/ai-companies-hiring-authors-poets-fix-writing
- https://publicinfrastructure.org/2023/03/29/the-three-legged-stool/
On pros and cons and limitations of [[ActivityPub]]
On economic incentives as they relate to how the AI-enabled (or flooded) web is likely to evolve
- [[You have not yet heard your favorite song]]

[[2024-10-02]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Chris Aldrich] [[Flancian]]
[[Chris Aldrich]]:
- Studying topology! Properly
- [[general topology]] and [[introduction to topology]]
- Super cool!
- Flancian: trying to study [[category theory]] informally.
  - [[a rosetta stone]]
  - #CA [[spivak]]: Spivak, David I. (1978– ). [[Category Theory for the Sciences]]. MIT Press, 2014.
- [[the bandwagon]] by [[Claude Shannon]]: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=1056774 :)
[[The Mad Scientists’ Club]]
[[globetrotting]]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bev9VChj5xQ&feature=youtu.be
[[west wing]] and [[shibboleth]]
[[vp debate]]
[[genghis khan]] and the [[myth of eternal growth]]
from here to [[atproto]] and [[federation]] in Mastodon :)
- [[flancian]] on the [[Ekumen]] project ;)
Chris’s notes/links: https://hypothes.is/search?q=tag%3A%22Friends%20of%20the%20Link%202024-10-02%22

[[2024-09-04]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff] [[Flancian]]
Check ins
- [[Jerry’s Reel]]: https://vimeo.com/1006299404
- Peter’s [[AI coaching forum]] is now open
  - Two paying members
  - [[Discourse]]:
    - The [[AI Coaching Forum]] is Discourse based as planned, it turns out that there is a good official plugin to manage subscriptions
    - An empty Discourse can be intimidating, but it has very good QoL once set up; and it’s super easy to install
- [[Aram]] shares screen, [[context center]]:
  - https://context.center/timeline/covid
  - Based on Eleventy, Molly’s system before she moved to react, and Aram’s personal archive/pinboard
  - It tries to produce archive links for every items
  - Icons are new
  - Questions/feedback
    - Can we integrate this massivewiki, given that both use markdown as a source of truth?
      - It would be nice to see a wiki in timeline view.
    - How to set up one of your own?
    - How to contribute new items or comment/engage?
    - Long covid icon could be clearer; icons could surface the category on hover (use title property?)
    - Love the deep linking + highlighting and archiving
    - Maybe deep link the timeline and/or individual resources?
How are we doing with other projects we wanted to do this year?
- [[neobooks]]
  - Monday [[Jose Leal]] on [[rprotocols]]: https://rprotocols.org/en/home
    - [[Integrative law]]
    - Maybe related to [[generative commons agreement]].
    - Looks very nice and interesting
    - Meta about the [[Henry Ford]] quote
  - What Do You Do When Stars, Heroes and Artists Act Reprehensibly? https://bra.in/7vPEG9

[[2024-08-28]]

Attending: [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff] [[Flancian]]
On [[hard disks]] and [[ssds]] longevity
On the potential for [[revolution]] / reform in the workplace
- [[Aram]] similar position previously
  - Tried getting to a position where fixing the system was the role
  - Time bidding
  - Going along
  - Upper management needs to be interested in operating with ethics
  - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_problem
  - [[Chris Aldrich]]:
    - [[satisficing]]
  - [[jerry michalski]] [[etymology of secretary]]
  - [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]:
    - [[nate silver]]:
      - [[the river]] vs [[the village]]
      - [[on the edge]]: [[the art of risking everything]]

Jerry says:The River vs The Village 
20:45
CA
Chris Aldrich says:On being a secretary: 
https://boffosocko.com/2015/11/02/on-being-a-secretary/
 
20:45
Peter Kaminski says:The River Where Black Swans Alight 
20:45
Aram Zucker-Scharff says:
https://thepointmag.com/politics/the-bookmaker/
 
20:46
Chris Aldrich
Chris Aldrich says:For Flancian: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisficing

On criticism of [[nate silver]]‘s last book
- on the value of probabilities, bayesian thinking, etc.
- but the problem of using betting as the framework
- statistical methods are good for analysis but not necessarily good for reaching good outcomes
- #CA on the difficulty of calculating nth order effects, in particular if you need to pass a bad event to reach a better event
- #AZS criticism of effective altruism by harper’s
- #CA on [[river and village]]
[[SJ]] on https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1T0eeZoT9ZrCbRG7sm-UkiKzBO8r_vPd2X7bR6NSd9-8/edit#slide=id.p
Discussing the mind melding experiment

[[2024-08-21]]

Attending: [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff] [[Flancian]]
Discussing the mind melding experiment
- Jerry did a new Brain export, sent over Mattermost
What have we been working on?
- [[Chris Aldrich]] enjoying the summer, working in a camp :) Plus jury duty
- [[Peter Kaminski]] tried [[simplemind]] ~ [[mind mapping software]]:
  - [[opml]]
  - where to try [[flux]]:
    - https://glif.app (search for glifs with "Flux" in the name)
    - https://fal.ai/models/fal-ai/flux-pro/ (pay per GPU use, but private)
  - [[flux]] is getting close to [[midjourney]] but [[midjourney]] is still better at image aesthetics; flux is better at some things, like words
  - (on how to run local models)
  - (https://pinokio.computer/)
- [[Jerry Michalski]]
  - lining ducks: website, reel
  - targetting [[2024-09-10]] to launch
    - https://www.jerrymichalski.com/
  - writing [[wikily]], [[nuggets]]
    - open question:
      - how do you [[nuggetize]], then compose
    - also see: [[chunking, naming, linking]], [[link as you think]], [[link your thinking]]
  - Q: how to track authorship/state of editing in AI enabled flows?
    - PK: for now I do it by hand by typing ‘this was written by <LLM> and not yet checked’
    - JM: wiki collaborative writing conventions could help here
      - there was also a tool (Mixed Ink) that retained attribution
- [[Flancian]]
  - [[open letters]]
    - #JM recommends [[letters live]]: https://www.youtube.com/@LettersLive
      - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJvczRkQHK0
  - [[pkg book]] as a reader
- [[Aram]]
  - Working on shipping the [[timeline]]
  - Figuring out how to deal with different data exports
    - [[data subject requests]] ~ [[DSRs]]
- [[Flancian]] related to DSRs:
  - https://x.com/exgenesis
  - https://x.com/exgenesis/status/1825559564655497483
  - #AZS eleventy had a service that made it easy for people to self-host static sites based on twitter archives
    - is/was it https://twitter.11ty.dev/ ? They’re moving off Twitter to Mastodon, YouTube, Discord, GitHub
      - https://github.com/tweetback
      - my example: https://tweets.aramzs.com
    - very nice!
    - would it be actually useful to offer this as a service? given that social media is so recency-biased
    - #CA reddits and forums also deal with the lack-of-wikiness (e.g. newcomers ask the same questions over and over again)
      - it would be cool to go from ‘I’ve been writing things on twitter for years’ to ‘here is a narrative/a neobook/a story based on my writing’

[[2024-08-14]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Flancian]]
Greetings!
[[Made by Google]] announcements
- About the [[Google]] messaging strategy, or the lack thereof :)
In [[VC]] space:
- [[Butter]]:
  - https://www.butter.us
- [[Soar Scribe]]:
  - https://soarscribe.com/
  - https://try.soar.com/
[[Google Plus]]
[[meditations on moloch]]
[[trump]]
[[elon musk]]
Question: who is the leftist [[musk]]?
- Women leaders?
- Melinda Gates
Possible mediators
- [[Lex Fridman]]
- [[Sam Harris]]
[[Free Jerry’s Brain]]:
- https://github.com/zsviczian/excalibrain
- New archive incoming :)

[[2024-07-31]]

Attending: [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Flancian]]
[[Check ins]]
- Jerry:
  - redesigning website
    - jerrymichalski.com
      - sometimes still giving issues for https://jerrymichalski.com
      - troubleshooting SSL issue
  - reel is in production
  - looking for speaking gigs
  - looking for ways to explain some concepts better:
    - neobooks
- Aram:
  - trouble with audio in jitsi, at least on firefox
  - happy with a new M1 based laptop, refurbished
  - using [[warp]]:
    - command line tool which is ai infused
    - https://www.warp.dev/warp-ai
  - working on the [[timeline]] tool, iterating on moving elements to htmx
    - could we use it within the fellowship?
    - maybe extract links from these notes, and jerry’s brain entries associated with our calls, and put them in a timeline?
    - #JM [[LATCH]]: Location, Alphabets, Time, Categories, Hierarchies
- Peter:
  - Doing good :)
- Flancian:
  - Back from Ischia!
Homework time
- We need a better word
- We want a bot to nudge us to do our homework halfway through the week (measured wed-to-tue?)
- [[aram]] https://aramzs.xyz/essays/the-internet-is-a-series-of-webs/
  - Aram looking at a series of articles about the future of the web being better than its past.
  - Aram presented for five minutes, it was awesome!
- [[semilink]] proposals
  - Task: pick a link and do a writeup on it; then discuss for five minutes.

[[2024-07-17]]

Attending: [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Flancian]]
[[Jitsi]] recording is on
Digital [[Syphons]] as an idea
- On the one hand it makes sense to keep copies of a lot of what we see
- But what about e.g. watching a movie? Would that give you the right to share the recording? It seems not (currently).
- Chris on how the entertainment industry is shaped by this question and current events.
  - [[Streaming]] as a factor
  - [[Piracy]]
    - Example of a company recently shut down that was doing piracy on large scale as a service
  - #PK maybe we’re going into a future in which we’ll have:
    - lots of derived work based on previous work, e.g. a million star wars
    - interactive experiences
  - [[Mashups]] enhanced by AI
    - Less creativity due to derivative nature
    - But more creativity in the sheer audacity of the combinations possible?
    - #PK precedent in what happened once studio level recording/editing became widely available
      - [[Billy Eilish]] (sp?)
  - AI derived work maybe doesn’t have the ‘cultural commonality’ sapect of current artifacts
    - #PK but we can expect a few creators to be ‘outliers’, widely followed, providing commonality
    - Influencers
    - Explosion in cultural context may result in context collapse — or just something different
    - Ingroups / see communities around influencers with their own memes
    - #PK yet AIs could also be guides to such communities
    - [[Extension 765]]
- #PK from an org I’m part of, something to consider if you’re in California: "Please sign these letters to legislators, telling them that misguided AI laws will hurt startups and small companies and discourage AI innovation and investment in California." https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeR5VrXxDJA3sJtkWDAKLH1TT0havDxmCf9PYAupxECu1BQYw/viewform
  - Oligarchy -> where the rich get to write the rules?
  - #CA "The factory cannot only look at the profit index. It must distribute wealth, culture, services, democracy. I think factory for man, not man for factory, right? The divisions between capital and labour, industry and agriculture, production and culture must be overcome. Sometimes, when I work late I see the lights of the workers working double shifts, the clerks, the engineers, and I feel like going to pay my respects." — [[Adriano Olivetti]]
  - Typewriters and degrading industrial quality, planned obsolescence
  - #PK The [[Matthew effect]] of accumulated advantage, sometimes called the Matthew principle, is the tendency of individuals to accrue social or economic success in proportion to their initial level of popularity, friends, and wealth. It is sometimes summarized by the adage or platitude "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer". The term was coined by sociologists Robert K. Merton and Harriet Zuckerman in 1968 and takes its name from the Parable of the Talents in the biblical Gospel of Matthew. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_effect
  - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect as it applies to typewriter
  - #F on the form earlier: it would be nicer to have something richer that lets you both support and oppose arbitrary proposals.
    - #AZS [[HOPE]] had a session on this
      - [[polis]]:
        
        https://pol.is
        
        part of the [[computational democracy]] project: https://github.com/compdemocracy/
        
        Used by these folks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G0v
    - Aram Zucker-Scharff says: yeah, I think the big thing also is transparency from these systems.
    - Peter Kaminski says:non sequitur, if you’re an AI geek (or just AI-curious), check out Moshi: https://moshi.chat/
    - https://x.com/kyutai_labs/status/1808883086173569222
- #AZS on the US trending towards maximum craziness
  - Things have been crazy for a while to the extent that someone shooting Trump didn’t raise the bar that much
  - On trying to, and failing, to keep up — like in the early days of the Trump administration
  - The half-life of news seems shorter and shorter
  - Have been building a full [[timeline of Covid]]
  - On examples of what people/communities were able to build in the US with a glimpse of UBI and some housing stability
  - #F on how we could learn more from past information
  - #AZS [[Cory Doctorow]] gave a great talk at [[HOPE]]

[[2024-07-10]]

Attending: [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Flancian]]
[[AI Coaching Forum]]
- will be [[Discourse]] based
- would love a demo once it’s ready
- there will be a paywall
- on the [[productivity equation]] of AI:
  - AI gives a significant productivity boost
  - so it should make it easy to give away a good fraction of content
  - lots of recent but by now historical data — e.g. how to best prompt a one year old model
    - could make for good content to publish (on a delayed schedule)
- the [[newspaper paywall]] model could also apply/have advantages
  - free articles and gifting the obligation of signing up to read them
#PK Good post by Yoshua Bengio, sections of the post include:
- For those who think AGI and ASI are impossible or are centuries in the future
- For those who think AGI is possible but only in many decades
- For those who think that we may reach AGI but not ASI
- For those who think that AGI and ASI will be kind to us
- For those who think that corporations will only design well-behaving AIs and existing laws are sufficient
- For those who think that we should accelerate AI capabilities research and not delay benefits of AGI
- For those concerned that talking about catastrophic risks will hurt efforts to mitigate short-term human-rights issues with AI
- For those concerned with the US-China cold war
- For those who think that international treaties will not work
- For those who think the genie is out of the bottle and we should just let go and avoid regulation
- For those who think that open-source AGI code and weights are the solution
- For those who think worrying about AGI is falling for Pascal’s wager
- [[Reasoning through arguments against taking AI safety seriously]]: https://yoshuabengio.org/2024/07/09/reasoning-through-arguments-against-taking-ai-safety-seriously/
#PK Ray Kurzweil, inventor / futurist / AI optimist, envisions that humans will merge with AI, which may excite you or disgust you. He has a new sequel book, "[[The Singularity Is Nearer]]: When We Merge with Computers", and he’s doing interviews to promote the book.
- Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/article/2024/jun/29/ray-kurzweil-google-ai-the-singularity-is-nearer
- NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/04/technology/ray-kurzweil-singularity.html
- Wired: https://www.wired.com/story/big-interview-ray-kurzweil/
- On merging with AI: [[Greg Egan]]‘s [[Diaspora]] is interesting (on ways forward.)
#F on identifying with AI and the steps/slopes that way
"My (Unfiltered) Take on AI Safety" https://daveshap.substack.com/p/my-unfiltered-take-on-ai-safety
[[itbwtcl]]: "Sophisticated people deride Disneyesque entertainments as pat and saccharine, but, hey, if the result of that is to instill basically warm and sympathetic reflexes, at a preverbal level, into hundreds of millions of unlettered media-steepers, then how bad can it be? We killed a lobster in our kitchen last night and my daughter cried for an hour. The Japanese, who used to be just about the fiercest people on earth, have become infatuated with cuddly adorable cartoon characters. My own family—the people I know best—is divided about evenly between people who will probably read this essay and people who almost certainly won’t, and I can’t say for sure that one group is necessarily warmer, happier, or better-adjusted than the other."
- whole hog and drills
- "emacs outshines…"
- #PK PDP-8 and similar experiences
  - Still rocking emacs!
- [[hackmd]] conflicts
[[bluesky agora support]]
- #PK on dropping out of social media altogether after twitter started dying
- #PK found [[openvibe]]:
  - https://openvibe.social/
    - multi-client for Mastodon, Bluesky, Nostr, Threads
- On the lack of search in the Fediverse
- #F https://tootfinder.ch does opt-in search for Mastodon
- Doing [[Bluesky first]] this month.
- #PK on [[POSSE]] and [[indieweb]]
  - micro.blog as a good example
  - is there an [[easy mode]] for indieweb that then you can build on?
  - is there a set of containers that someone could run to then give indieweb services to a group of people?
- What are some good fundations that provide infrastructure services?
  - archive.org
  - apache
  - mozilla (at times)
  - wikimedia
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Behlendorf
- [[Benetech]]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benetech
[[firehose story]]
- [[chris messina]]

[[2024-07-03]]

Attending: [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Chris Aldrich]]
Talk about Obsidian’s attraction for world building tools
- Alt: World Anvil, Campfire Writing, Scribner, fantasia archive
- Most alts are costly, Obsidian is free and popular among ‘how to use tool’ video makers
  - [[Jerry Michalski]]: that’s important!
  - [[Peter Kaminski]]
    - ai world building / interactive fiction tools / role playing (from https://ai101.peterkaminski.wiki/live_session_notes/learn_and_do_with_peter_notes,_2024-04-17):
    - "DreamGen Opus" - uncensored models fine-tuned for (steerable) story writing, chat, role-playing
      - https://huggingface.co/dreamgen/opus-v0-7b
    - "SillyTavern" - interact with text generation AIs and chat/roleplay with characters you or the community create
      - https://sillytavernai.com/
    - "GOAT-Storytelling-Agent" - Arbitrarily Long Story Writing Agent
      - https://www.blog.goat.ai/goat-st/
    - Kobold AI, Kobold Lite, KoboldCpp - browser-based front-end for AI-assisted writing with multiple local & remote AI models
    - https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/18lve2x/whats_the_difference_between_koboldcpp/
[[Jerry Michalski]] How books fail us? - https://app.thebrain.com/brain/3d80058c-14d8-5361-0b61-a061f89baf87/122ff55a-e125-4009-8f74-b20f3a0997ce
- [[Chris Aldrich]]
  - Format effects what is written and what is read.
  - Twitter is useful as a writing tool because of limited input
- [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]: Twitter style writing with the limited input seems effective for creating forward motion.
Lacy, Tim. The Dream of a Democratic Culture: Mortimer J. Adler and the Great Books Idea. New York: Palgrave Macmillan, 2013 - https://www.amazon.com/Dream-Democratic-Culture-Mortimer-Intellectual/dp/0230337465?&linkCode=sl1&tag=boffosocko-20&linkId=377b8ccd203cd114ebfec8df3f2d26c1&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl
"Culture War" as a perpetual historical cycle - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulturkampf

[[2024-06-19]]

Attending: [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Bentley Davis]] [[Flancian]]
Green screens and [[Jitsi]] < [[Meet]] < [[Zoom]]
[[Flancian]]
- Introspection and soul searching :)
[[Peter Kaminski]]
- Doing well and making progress on how to deliver educational content
- Epiphany with GenAI
  - When "most" people can generate e.g. images via GenAI, where does that leave the creator/curator/etc.?
  - The understanding of the craft is still valuable; the role might be helping people make better images/work with creative tools better
  - How will niches evolve with these changes?
    - Some people are very good at writing prompts
    - Some people have very good ideas
    - Some people are very good at ‘finishing’/touching up
- [[movies]] <-> [[games]] spectrum
- [[David]], CEO of [[Midjourney]]:
  - [[davidh]], [[David Holz]]
  - Movies (no interactivity) -> games (interactivity; game maker and player are distinct) -> [[immersive, open world simulations]] (creative interactivity, everybody is a maker)
  - [[AI Dungeon]]
  - [[Infinite Zork]]
- [[multi-level]] architectures to develop full length books; difference betwen published fiction and interactive text games blurring
[[PKM]] and [[AI]] interactions
- Interesting question the first
  - Removing distinction between finding a note and writing it on the fly
  - Tracking provenance
  - [[Color of the bits]]
    - Do we need [[EXIF for AI]] (sourcing metadata)
  - [[Marc-Antoine Parent]] - knowing the "edges" of a dataset, and knowing if/when the AI is reaching "outside" of the edges
- Interesting question the second
  - Corpus gathering
    - Original source data
    - Synthetic data
      - [[Nemotron-4 340B]], an open-source pipeline for generating synthetic data. 98 percent of the training data used to fine-tune the Instruct model is synthetic and was created using Nvidia’s pipeline.
    - Communities of practice and the potential of their corpora
  - [[Prompt router]]?
    - #PK doesn’t use them (do they exist yet?) because the top-of-the-line models (e.g. [[gpt 4o]] currently) are good enough in most aspects
    - #F But what if other models were optimistically/lazily surfaced? :)
    - It is true that sometimes you know that your model isn’t doing as good as it could do (e.g. with coding)
  - [[LMStudio]]
    - needs models in [[GGUF]]
  - Do we worry about enshittification in the AI space, e.g. [[OpenAI]]?
    - Will they be captured by capitalism?
    - Carrying the ring of power — why not have a fellowship?
    - Why be so proprietary and non-open?
  - Do we need better [[open letters]]? ;)
    - Let’s try to convince key players of the importance of the [[commons]] approach?
    - #PK working hypothesis: there’s emergent behaviors that are (massively) bigger than any individuals or groups of humans
      - fulcrum/stick; [[trimtabs]] (Buckminster Fuller)
    - #F enjoyed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwhTfyX9J34 with [[Sara Walker]], related
    - [[Deep history]]
    - #PK enjoyed 3.3 million years of stone tool complexity suggests that cumulative culture began during the Middle Pleistocene | PNAS - the beginning of social knowledge?
    - [[David Deutsch]]
      - [[The Fabric of Reality]]
      - [[The Beginning of Infinity]] <- fav
    - [[William Calvin]]
      - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_H._Calvin
      - [[How Brains Think]]
      - [[Throwing Madonna]]
        
        Hypothesis
        
        We became unreasonably good at throwing by being bad at throwing, and then bootstrapped into having the right neuronal structures evolving for precision timing of throws. Those neural structures could then be coopted for intelligence, music, speech, etc.

[[2024-05-29]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Chris Aldrich]] Late: [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] [[Flancian]]
(in media res)
On [[Jerry’s keynote]]:
- Modelled after [[April Rinne]]‘s earlier.
- Keywords:
  - [[rethinking]] [[constraints]]
- [[design from trust]] — what we can unlock if we stop assuming everybody is out for the worst.
- four-s methodology <- focus of the second half of the presentation.
- About strategic thinking methods.
- [[Chris Aldrich]] Ed DeBono (sp?) thinking hats for the new millenium — related to the preaching circuit.
  - [[flancian]] aside about [[MLK]]
  - [[Jerry Michalski]] on [[Bayard Rustin]]
  - [[Chris Aldrich]] zettelkasten for MLK: https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F00151650-d518-4267-8cdb-c9b843f6e24c_1440x1198.webp
- Friday appointment :D
- On being in the [[speaker circuit]] / getting back to the arena.
  - Book question
    - What are book-equivalent projects in your past?
      - Binders of research
      - Newsletter production
      - Brain
  - [[Chris Aldrich]]: on the lifecycle of ideas. Sometimes one outgrows ideas and they drop out of conversation because of this.
    - Is [[David Allen]] tired of [[GTD]]?
  - [[Design from Trust]]: https://wiki.openglobalmind.com/projects/jerry’s_nuggets/design_from_trust_(neobook)
  - #AZS
    - need to establish authority and standing
    - need a hook into people’s attention (paraphrasing)
    - the "easiest" (or most common and socially accepted currently) way of solving both is publishing a book
    - respect for the [[POSSE]] but unsure it works for this specific problem — except for [[Cory Doctorow]]. But even he didn’t start that way. It is a solution intended for online identity as an object.
  - [[Jerry Michalski]] something that leads people to discover the thing themselves, so they want my help with it
    - #AZS
      - I sorta think the answer lies somewhere in documenting the history of the thing
  - [[Chris Aldrich]] parallels between the publishing industry and the studio system, which is mostly owned by corporations for which making films is a secondary concern (e.g. Sony is an electronics company first).
    - One of the questions that publishing houses ask is: ‘who already cares about you’.

[[2024-05-22]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Flancian]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
Check ins
- [[Flancian]] under a pile of work somehow! Will stay only for part of this unfortunately. But fine otherwise!
  - [[Cyberfeminism index]]: https://cyberfeminismindex.com/
- [[Jerry]]
  - Experimented with [[fungal metaphors]] and [[chat-gpt]]: https://wiki.openglobalmind.com/projects/jerry’s_nuggets/gpt-4o_riffs_on_fungal_ideas
- [[Peter]]
  - [[ChatGPT]] and memory
    - initially thought it was an "anti-feature"
    - "could you keep separate memories for different things"
    - asked them what they would call the categories around which memories were clustered
    - they suggested ‘project’ or ‘topic’
    - queried ‘books that came up in calls’, now interactively asked them to add the cyberfeminist index to a project
  - [[tools for thought]] in the age of [[conversational ai]]
    - [[assistants]] participating in meetings and facilitating them
  - [[shared memory in the commons]]
- #AZS on the risk of enshittification of chat-gpt and it turning further into a walled garden
  - what if we cease being able to export stuff from chatgpt?
  - we need browser plugins
  - [[rhizome conifer]]: https://conifer.rhizome.org/
  - [[chatgpt exporter]]: https://github.com/pionxzh/chatgpt-exporter
- [[Chris Aldrich]]
  - idea attribution and [[my self told my self]] :D
  - #AZS keyword: [[rendition]] as used in [[the age of surveillance capitalism]]:
    - “The prediction imperative transforms the things that we have into things that have us in order that it might render the range and richness of our world, our homes, and our bodies as behaving objects for its calculations and fabrications on the path to profit….there can be rendition without surveillance capitalism."
    - [[meta]] on the problem of search/retrieval
#F [[subconscious]] is gone/done :(
- https://subconscious.substack.com/p/subconscious-is-winding-down
#PK fwiw, i don’t have many books in my chatgpt memory yet, so the Cyberfeminism book had big influence. i asked chatgpt about more books that would fit with others, and it listed these:
- "The Fourth Industrial Revolution" by Klaus Schwab
- "Technofeminism" by Judy Wajcman
- "Data Feminism" by Catherine D’Ignazio and Lauren F. Klein
- "Weapons of Math Destruction" by Cathy O’Neil
- "Algorithms of Oppression: How Search Engines Reinforce Racism" by Safiya Umoja Noble
- "The Second Self: Computers and the Human Spirit" by Sherry Turkle
- "The Age of Surveillance Capitalism" by Shoshana Zuboff
- "How We Became Posthuman: Virtual Bodies in Cybernetics, Literature, and Informatics" by N. Katherine Hayles
- "Emergent Strategy: Shaping Change, Changing Worlds" by Adrienne Maree Brown
- "The Future of Another Timeline" by Annalee Newitz
Peter Kaminski Peter Kaminski says:Borges’s Library of Babel has EVEN MORE books than the Library of Congress! Jerry says:that’s the cheaper version Chris Aldrich says:"No piece of information is superior to any other. Power lies in having them all on file and then finding the connections. There are always connections; you have only to want to find them."—Umberto Eco (Foucault’s Pendulum) Aram Zucker-Scharff says: https://github.com/AramZS/aramzs.xyz https://www.flavorwire.com/515783/brooklyn-author-recreates-borges-library-of-babel-as-infinite-website
On scraping [[kindle]] / exporting our data from there
- #PK an old (6 years) project that readwise maintained, to export kindle highlights: [TristanH/bookcision](
- #AZS I used https://clippings.io/ for the curious. Have to do a writeup on how I used it more extensively. https://github.com/tristanh/bookcision
[[open letters]]
- #PK like the idea but probably won’t work due to people finding it too challenging
  - an alternate approach: make things that [[commonize]] stuff; focus on improving usability of tools aligned with our goals / the good of the commons.
on manual indexing
[[semilink]] update
- [[aram]] https://aramzs.xyz/essays/the-internet-is-a-series-of-webs/
- we want a bot to nudge us to do our homework halfway through the week (measured wed-to-tue?)

[[2024-05-15]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Samuel Klein]] [[Flancian]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
On [[Google I/O]] and [[OpenAI]]‘s presentation
- The [[Her]] factor of marketing
- On compentition and incentives
- The dystopia is the point https://www.bloodinthemachine.com/p/for-tech-ceos-the-dystopia-is-the?utm_source=pocket_saves
On [[wealth redistribution]] and giving back to creators
- Nice it if happened, but will it? It didn’t happen in earlier/non-AI stages of aggregations
- If you want the sources of information to stick around in the long term, you should give back to them?
- They keep saying profit sharing but it never happens
- [[Palo Alto]] by [[Malcolm Harris]]: https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/malcolm-harris/palo-alto/9780316592031/
#AZS
- [[breakthrough technology]] vs [[breakdown technology]]
- https://www.bloodinthemachine.com/p/for-tech-ceos-the-dystopia-is-the?utm_source=pocket_saves
on [[maximizing shareholder value]]:
- https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2024/05/google-io-gemini-learnlm/678379/
- https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/harold-meyerson-the-myth-of-maximizing-shareholder-value/2014/02/11/00cdfb14-9336-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html
- SJ says:none of it is a function of law
- SJ says:it’s all social norms
- Good book on this: "The Man Who Broke Capitalism: How Jack Welch Gutted the Heartland and Crushed the Soul of Corporate America―and How to Undo His Legacy"
- WIAB https://incubator.apache.org/projects/wave.html
- Jerry: What is the phenomenon where the norms that got a company or country to where they are get thrown out?
- Aram: That phenomenon is Shifting Baselines https://aramzs.xyz/glossary/shifting-baselines/
- Links collected on the open source crisis https://context.center/topics/maintaining-open-source/
- Scatter, Adapt, and Remember: How Humans Will Survive a Mass Extinction, Annalee Newitz
Google Books
- A google utopian project?
- Q: why didn’t Google join efforts with the [[Internet Archive]] then?
- [[SJ]] on the history
- Good article - https://www.wired.com/2017/04/how-google-book-search-got-lost/
- [[SJ]] lots of companies spend their $ on user or society surplus. on average, most companies don’t survive. the itnersection of those that invest in public surplus and those survive decreases over time… if you weather a downturn you probably cut out most areas of surplus. and it’s rare that it comes back
- SJ says:but coops are also companies and often defined in terms of helping one another survive downturns. let’s design future orgs and systems from good models
- https://context.center/topics/maintaining-open-source/
- https://aramzs.xyz/glossary/shifting-baselines/
The Long Next
- [[SJ]] we don’t need to ‘fix capitalism’
- SJ says:most of society still runs on other isms
- me says:+1, we want to upgrade existing systems and build more and better bridges between them
- /now and ending urls with /json and /md to get JSON and MD versions of the data respectively. Standard data sharing flows.
- Webfinger
- Webmention
- ActivityPub
- https://github.com/jhass/nodeinfo
  - https://codeberg.org/thefederationinfo/nodeinfo_metadata_survey
Ideas for shared projects
- Frame the fellowship as a community of practice, use knowledge tools together and showcase/present the results
- Organize classes in digital knowledge tools
- Take all our notes and artifacts and feed them to an LLM
- Run a semilink (seminar) series
  - One link 15m session - 3m, about link, 5m about discussion, then a wrapup. Embed the link in the full history of its context.
Let’s come back next week with ideas in any form you want and present
- We’ll call it [[semilink]] as per Samuel’s
- everyone has to bring one half-baked link and one potential person to include 😉

[[2024-05-01]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Flancian]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
[[Check ins]]
- [[Chris Aldrich]] — just back from constructive protests :)
  - #JM On polarization vs support of ‘sides’
    - #PK And proponents of a cause vs destabilizers
    - #PK "’Outside agitators’ descended on Columbia campus to radicalize students: Eric Adams" https://nypost.com/2024/05/01/us-news/hundreds-of-protesters-arrested-at-columbia-as-anti-israel-group-calls-for-support/
    - #AZS The NYPD said they couldn’t find any actual non-students
    - #AZS NYPD walked back some earlier statements
  - #CA This was an interesting take about campus protests recently: The only thing university administrators had to do was NOTHING. by [[Dave Karpf]]
  - #AZS on the issue of double-standards. Some students are disruptive on campus, pretty much always — but response is sometimes disproportionate.
  - #F about university autonomy
    - Same rules than elsewhere, but in this case the administration invited the police in.
  - #AZS https://twitter.com/BFriedmanDC/status/1785683633270829403 https://twitter.com/MattBinder/status/1785682880963780785 https://twitter.com/outlivethemnyc/status/1785508769859875219
  - This vs 1968
  - https://www.insidehighered.com/news/governance/executive-leadership/2024/04/29/presidents-grapple-how-respond-student-protesters
  - #CA the students are relatively better informed on most of these issues than the average citizen (but they will have to fight prejudices?)
  - #JM what should we do about this?
    - Tolerate protest
    - Telling people to protest differently is usually not productive
    - Dis-investment movement will probably not work
    - Respond with facts — carry a factsheet, #AZS did this in campus years :)
  - #F naive position / on campus as safe debate spaces ideally
  - #AZS Collection of campus protest links: https://aramzs.xyz/topic/academia/
  - Israel vs Palestine as one of the hardest issues to debate due to the difficulty of reaching ‘ground truth’.
  - On deescalation not being a function that the police force has historically, even though it was the right function here.
  - On the boundaries between hate speech and free speech
  - #JM https://dangerousspeech.org/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Benesch
  - #CA [[schrodinger’s douchebag]]: One who makes douchebag statements, particularly sexist, racist or otherwise bigoted ones, then decides whether they were “just joking” or dead serious based on whether other people in the group approve or not. (via https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=schrodinger%E2%80%99s%20douchebag )
Check ins
- Flancian: what did I miss in the last few sessions? :)
  - New potential member!
  - [[founders letter]] and [[open letter]] idea
  - two questions ;)
    - do companies have no real encoded principles other than making more money? :(
      - maybe the founders were well meaning but they were naive millionaires
    - is this a good idea or a bad one?
      - https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-men-who-killed-google/
- Jerry: will [[generative AI]] survive capitalism?
  - Peter: and vice-versa :)
  - On the issue of bait-and-switch
  - Is capitalism strictly evil or not?
    - Devil’s advocate: capitalism is not necessarily toxic, but we have ended up with the cancerous kind
    - Variants of Capitalism: https://bra.in/5vmPJj
  - #PK you need to ‘hack culture’ to codify the values that would actually counteract the constant pressure to make money
  - #AZS on what levers can realistically effect change in a large corporation
  - #PK frame it as a cautionary tale: don’t let what happened to Google happen to your company
  - On open source:
    https://www.computerworld.com/article/2074112/software-vendors-dump-open-source-go-for-the-cash-grab.html https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/08/17/1077498/future-open-source/ https://thenewstack.io/open-source-needs-maintainers-but-how-can-they-get-paid/
On Google revolts:
- https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/apr/27/google-project-nimbus-israel
- “It’s difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on not understanding it." -Upton Sinclair
- https://www.seattletimes.com/business/google-employee-who-played-key-role-in-protest-of-contract-with-israel-quits/
- https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/02/18/magazine/google-revolt.html

[[2024-04-03]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Flancian]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Michael Grossman]] [[SJ]]
[[Check ins]]
- (Nazis sucked)
- Emigration alternatives
  - German option
  - Netherlands
  - Spain
- Second Trump term would suck as well (in a different way)
  - What’s wrong with the [[democratic party]]?
  - https://bra.in/2j9rrx
  - https://www.axios.com/2024/04/02/biden-gaza-blank-ballots-new-york-democratic-primary
  - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked-choice_voting_in_the_United_States
  - https://bra.in/4j32Rr
  - [[Ezra Klein]]‘s take on [[Biden]]
  - [[beyond left melancholy]]: https://thebaffler.com/salvos/beyond-left-melancholy-proctor
- [[SJ]]:
  - I would like your comments / feedback on two constructive things!
  - 1: this (shareable) series of 5 short [[one pagers]] on [[open science]]: https://docs.google.com/document/d/155sDqLGqPTEsGB9ZuYY9LNbOHZU8_DqBcc_812rthcE/
  - 2: [[knowledge integrity project]]: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ixbVNtKnsPpUEwJSKm1kpxGzgm5A0CGiLrxD51lqwoE

[[2024-03-20]]

Attending: [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Flancian]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
[[Aram]]
- [[build a website]]:
  - https://aramzs.me/baw -> https://aramzs.github.io/build-a-website/#/
- on [[fenced frame]]:
  - https://wicg.github.io/fenced-frame/
[[Peter]]
- Working on courses, teaching people: [[chatgpt]] [[obsidian]] [[midjourney]]
- On getting from there to ‘products’
  - Experimenting with ‘pay what you want’ with the obsidian one
  - Midjourney is $5/mo.
  - On the topic of curating/heavily editing/not publishing everything
  - Currently using [[gumroad]].
  - On contributing to the commons?
  - [[AZS]] you are generating a lot — how are you doing it?
    - [[PK]] have a lot of prepared prompts. Midjourney is also very well tuned to produce nice images, and it does so even with almost random prompts.
    - [[PK]] Midjourney doesn’t allow programmatic access in their terms of service.
    - [[AZS]] uses Midjourney to generate material for DMing, characters and maps.
    - [[AZS]] can you creative commons AI images given that you can’t copyright them? Maybe they are only [[public domain]]?
    - Can we just train further AIs on those and leave copyright behind? :)
  - [[Pete’s Courses]]:
    - [[Path shift people]]: https://pathshiftpeople.gumroad.com/
    - [[AI 101]]: https://ai101.peterkaminski.wiki/
    - the "beginner’s curriculum" i’ve started working on: https://ai101.peterkaminski.wiki/ai_101_building_blocks
[[Eduardo]]
- Participating in the [[Fediversalist Papers]] in 1h
- Helping organize a [[GenAI hackathon]] at the day job
On how to combine massive wiki / agora with new AI tools?

[[2024-03-13]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Flancian]] [[Chris Aldrich]]
Daylight savings excitement :)
- [[flancian]] now moved the next two instances to an earlier timeslot in EU
[[check ins]]
- [[Chris Aldrich]] doing well, also with writing projects, but car not doing so well
- [[Peter Kaminski]] read about [[hookmark]]:
  - [[mac os]] only
  - https://hookproductivity.com/help/integration/using-hook-with-obsidian/
  - on [[deep links]] and [[uri schemes]]
  - [[Jerry]] on [[elgato stream pad]] and macro programming
  - [[david bovill]] and [[liquid democracy]]
    - https://bra.in/2qZEZB
- [[Flancian]] is using [[betula]] for bookmarks, e.g. https://links.flancia.org/
  - https://betula.mycorrhiza.wiki/ for more on it
  - federates
  - new https://anagora.org homepage
    - thanks for the bug report on weird behavior from embedding docs :)
- [[Jerry Michalski]]
  - trying to succintly explain the thread connecting all the things I’m working on
  - some overhead in figuring out links between all projects
Where do we want to go from here?
- Last time we discussed [[composer]]
- [[Neobooks]]
  - [[Flancian]] On [[Pattern Languages]]
    - [[Meta Pattern Language]]
    - take N top PLs and integrate them?
    - #JM on [[liberating structures]] which is an [[almost pattern language]]
      - [[flancian]] is interested in the class
      - #JM can envision a zoom/meet widget that helps facilitate meetings and run e.g. [[1 1 2 4 all]]: https://www.liberatingstructures.com/1-1-2-4-all/
      - In general an LLM interface to PLs
    - #CA reminds me of [[brian eno’s]] [[oblique strategies]]
    - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblique_Strategies
    - "Announcing JSON Canvas: an open file format for infinite canvas data - Obsidian" https://obsidian.md/blog/json-canvas/
  - #CA been working on a [[neobook]] (that I wasn’t calling as such)
    - structuring one for https://pkmsummit.com/
  - #PK And interesting news: "Announcing JSON Canvas: an open file format for infinite canvas data - Obsidian" https://obsidian.md/blog/json-canvas/
- [[Flancian]] is a huge fan of [[silverbullet]]
- [[Peter Kaminski]] working on [[Midjourney]] and [[LLM]] classes
  - Working on a simple frontend for [[LLMs]]
  - Calling it [[salamander]]
    - CLI and Flask
- #CA Notes from 1w-2w ago when we were talking about [[neobooks]] and a possible pipeline
  - having a repository of ideas
    - generally indexed or interlinked
  - having a tool for creating an outline
  - having a tool to go from outline to full text
  - similar preexisting tools in this space:
    - tools that take URLs and create ‘books’ for people to read as pdf or mobi
  - #CA Here’s some of the prior art research on these sorts of reading lists: https://indieweb.org/reading_list
  - #FL would like to experiment with this last process in particular (outline to full text, set of nodes to text)
  - #PK A fast, free image viewer I use for sifting through thousands of images: Phoenix Slides https://blyt.net/phxslides/

[[2024-03-06]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Flancian]] [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] [[Samuel Klein]]
[[Check ins]]
- [[Chris Aldrich]] shows us his Zettelkasten
  - 8 thousand approx. in one drawer (!)
  - But the background drawers hold many tens of thousands
  - [[flancian]] thought about digitizing?
  - [[aram zucker-scharff]] for backup purposes
    - https://simonwillison.net/2024/Feb/21/gemini-pro-video/ as a possible strategy for backups
- [[Jerry Michalski]]
  - on [[Bahrain]] https://photos.app.goo.gl/S2MVcGm7Rg6VbAta9
  - on being a [[Beard]]
    - vs a [[Merkin]]
  - [[DXOS]] demo on [[Free Jerry’s Brain]] call
    - we’ll use [[composer]] for note taking
  - Q: freedom status of the brain?
    - Pete is looking into connecting the brain to GPT
- [[Peter Kaminski]]: [[composer]] demo
  - https://tinyurl.com/3cfysbvp
- On one [[opencollective]] shutting down — and three not doing so and doing well (?).
  - https://blog.opencollective.com/open-collective-official-statement-ocf-dissolution/
- is [[composer]] and the [[local first]] approach without deep [[interlinking]]
  - better to invest on something simpler that can be gathered by the internet archive?
  - [[metasj]] would like something with incremental statements about provenance instead of high barrier to entry
  - [[metasj]] and definitely something that the [[internet archive]] can archive
  - strong privacy / strong identity is part of the requirements of the project
  - #CA I’m reminded here of https://linkingmanifesto.org/
  - #SJ says:chris: nice 😃 [[pdurbin]] likes to be "slopi" https://github.com/pdurbin/slopi-communication
  - #CA https://indieweb.org/local_first
  - on the limitations of the distributed-first approach, and whether they are inherent to the model or just tend to produce interfaces of a particular kind
  - #AZS on [[glitch]]
- [[metasj]] on [[Flickr Commons]] and [[WikiPortraits]]
  - #JM [[storycorps]] meets [[tiktok]]

[[2024-02-28]]

Attending: [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Flancian]] [[Samuel Klein]] [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
On [[neobooks]]
- The [[BFDL]] concept as it applies to this project :)
- Reference [[neobook]]/first [[neobook]]
- [[nuggetization]]
  - how it relates to translating between [[worldviews]]
  - The difficulty of finding editors to work with to help work them into neobooks
- [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
  - it seems likely that [[nuggets]] that are intended to be used within a [[neobook]] are going to be even harder to integrate elsewhere once "enhanced" by AI
  - AI will tend to ‘overwrite’ towards a particular problem
  - [[Peter Kaminski]] would agree, and in the case we’re discussing the AI expansion made the end result harder to process. But AI in general seems like a powertool: it can be used with skill and make you go faster, but they can get out of control.
  - [[Flancian]] on maybe defining nugget as ‘human written’ or at least ‘full of human meaning/curated by a human’.
  - [[Chris Aldrich]] have you thought about going from Agora nodes to books/other format?
    - As per <reference></reference>
      - The Spectator newspaper from the early 1700s
      - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spectator_(1711)
    - [[the case for books]] by [[Robert Darnton]] as an anthology "book" comprised of previously written magazine articles
- Precedents for [[nuggetization]] and [[composition]]
  - composition:
    - as per the above examples
  - nuggetization
    - wiki culture
- Repository of good nuggets?
  - https://wiki.openglobalmind.com/search
    - Q: how do you do search?
    - A: [[LUNR]]. https://stork-search.net/ also exists.
  - https://hypothes.is/users/chrisaldrich
- [[indie search]]:
  - [[static search]]: https://context.center/topics/indie-search/#search-for-static-sites

[[2024-02-21]]

Attending: [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Flancian]] [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Samuel Klein]]
- ([[Bentley Davis]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] [[Chris Aldrich]] might join)
[[check ins]]
- [[Peter Kaminski]]
  - working on an [[AI newsletter]]:
    - https://store.pathshiftpeople.com/l/pretty-pictures-with-pete
  - and the [[Plex dispatch]]:
    - inter community newsletter for [[OGM]] and other related communities
    - https://plex.collectivesensecommons.org/2024-02-07/ for the latest
  - [[meta]] Q: how much time per newsletter?
    - Plex: 6-8h per issue
    - AI: still unsure, but it’s probably 1h for each (a few times a week).
  - on doing away with stock photography
    - legal insurance apparently is a factor here
    - is this a risk if we replace more stock photography companies with fewer AI companies?
      - maybe but it’s not a very democratic industry/market to begin with
    - on [[distracted boyfriend]] and how that was produced
  - would [[pixelthesia]] scale to millions of images?
    - it’s [[smugmug]] underneath
    - [[pixelthesia]]: https://www.pixelthesia.ai/
    - on [[toy story]] and the affordances it provided early in the development of computer graphics
    - on the pipeline from unique distinguishing factor to ‘given’
  - #JM on [[creativity inc]]
  - on [[Sora]] and other pushback against current approaches
  - #JM on mispredicting the future
- [[Jerry Michalski]] thinking about the Metaverse in preparation for Bahrain
  - [[issues with the metaverse]]:
    - [[ergonomics]]
    - [[interpersonal]] limitations
  - #SJ but [[head up displays]] are great
  - on [[ambient computing]]
    - and [[plug and play]] everything: e.g. [[battery packs]] for cars
- [[Flancian]]
  - any progress on finding or building the [[generative commons]]?
    - [[mistral]] is great
    - [[huggingchat]] is solid
    - #JM https://generativecommons.org
      - https://bra.in/2qzKJ6
    - #SJ https://publicai.network and https://gen.studio
      - have been running a seminar for people building infrastructure
      - people from a dozen countries working on their own projects
      - there’s definitely potential in this
      - let’s start a stone soup
    - #JM should we start a plan?
      - +1
      - #SJ I like starting with a namespace
        
        in order to call it a commons we need to:
        
        have a namespace
        
        a mechanism for classifying
        
        people seem interested in participating in a commons in general, but we need to have one we can point to as successful
        
        it probably needs to be as general as possible, close to just a set of thing
      - the [[generative commons]] could include:
        
        [[corpora]]
        
        [[generated outputs]]
      - the default interface could be a playground connecting sources, prompts to outputs
        
        [[prompt router]] with flows to contribute back to the commons
    - #JM my approach was very intentional
    - #PK pays for [[stealth mode]] in [[midjourney]]
    - #SJ whatever this commons is, it should be a good place to develop alternatives to services provided by corporations
      - The commons could be a better market than the market, decouple also provider/producer communities from walled gardens (and empower them)
    - #JM [[AI Salon]] https://www.meetup.com/the-ai-salon/
    - #JM [[nanopub]]: https://nanopub.net/
      - [[nanodash]]: https://nanodash.knowledgepixels.com/explore?id=RAxPdvy5RN-jyPOMcBNEsUEn2CPBtAa3W0Ct3tbID4PiM
    - #PK [[nostr]] and [[nips]]
    - on the problem of [[moderation]] and how it relates to [[commons]]
      - [[governing the commons]]
  - [[huggingchat]]
    - #SJ has [[midjourney]] produced a commons by default?
  - found (and really like) [[silver bullet]] == [[silverbullet.md]]
[[gemma]]:
- https://opensource.googleblog.com/2024/02/building-open-models-responsibly-gemini-era.html

[[2024-02-14]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Bentley Davis]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
[[check ins]]
- [[Flancian]]
  - sick again :( but not terrible
  - still dealing with labour and interpersonal issues at work, but getting better
- [[Jerry Michalski]]
  - will be in [[Bahrain]] for a panel, connected with the grand prix and the [[metaverse]]
  - long flights, in particular on the way back!
    - might read + write
  - [[masters of the air]] like [[band of brothers]] but not as good
- [[Chris Aldrich]]
  - Joining a meetup! [[Tinderbox]] podcast
    - Sunday 18th, 9am-10:30 Pacific
    - #JM did that podcast: https://bra.in/2qeYrg
  - [[Tinderbox meetup]]: https://forum.eastgate.com/c/events-for-tinderbox-storyspace/13
Next Monday: [[free Jerry’s brain]] demo, [[1PM Pacific]]
- [[rich burdon]]
- distributed open source platform, own your own data
- [[braneframe]]: https://www.braneframe.com
- [[dxos]]: https://dxos.org
Topics from last time
- [[autopoiesis]]
- [[neobooks]]
[[collective authoring]] as distinct from the basics of [[book publishing]]
- the default sort of social interaction so far for neobooks are github/git forge fork-and-send-PRs
- are there any less geeky ways to contribute/interact?
  - commenting systems
  - [[hypothes.is]]
- do we need an analog for copy-and-paste for how to collaborate in a distributed mesh of documents?
  - [[conflict resolution]] is one part of this
  - we can check the variety of wikis that are built on top of [[git]] plus [[markdown]] plus [[wikilinks]]
- there is a reason we end up with git as a backend; the alternatives are more computationally expensive, require servers or parties to run software.
- [[google docs]] as a model maybe — the comments-only access is something we might want an equivalent for
  - [[etherpad]]
  - something built on [[crdt]]
  - #push [[P2]]
    - Editing collaboratively meets comment threading via https://wordpress.com/p2/
- on the topic of group memory; how not to start every conversation with a relatively blank slate
  - [[denormalization]] and [[cross posting]] of notes
  - [[posse]]: https://indieweb.org/POSSE
[[cross posting]] of [[bluesky]] and the [[federation]]
- https://snarfed.org/2024-01-21_moderate-people-not-code
- https://snarfed.org/2024-02-05_52058
- #AZS wish there were different models of federation
  - on being more focused on being broadcasters than collectors
- #CA how do we map thousands of years of social evolution onto the possibilities of digital communities
  - [[the internet con]] by [[doctorow]] makes the case that we should go towards smaller distributed communities that can make their decisions
  - on how choosing an instance or platform is also about choosing what one wants to signal (or broadcast)
  - [[posse]] lets you pick and choose which communities you cross-post to; if you’re [[indieweb]] first you probably don’t care as much about the visibility that one single instance has over the rest of the fediverse
  - #AZS people are not necessarily posting on social media with the assumption that everybody will care; they assume there is in practice a small neighborhood. That is true until it isn’t (see e.g. unexpected virality)
  - #JM about [[boundaries]]: a well functioning group understands its boundaries and its norms
    - and expectations
#CA [[Book Club]] on [[Cataloging the World]] and Index, A History of the
- https://boffosocko.com/2024/02/11/book-club-on-cataloging-the-world-and-index-a-history-of-the/
- [[Dan Allosso]]
[[Intimacy Gradient]]
- Expectations around where and when you expect people to engage with you.
- Maybe we could carry our own ‘terms of service’ / privacy and engagement settings in a platform-agnostic way
- #CA media has adapted and changed in its standards as well; newspapers in the early 20th century had completely different standards w.r.t. privacy expectations than towards the end.
- On evolving [[civility standards]]
  - [[Trump]] exploiting this
Need different spaces and contexts where it one can be in rough notes, drafty, professional, etc…

[[2024-02-07]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Bentley Davis]]
[[NeoBooks]] how to lower the bar both technologically as well as from a community perspective
Notes in [[Jerry’s Brain]]: https://bra.in/9vAgo3

[[2023-01-31]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Flancian]] [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] (Half time) [[Peter Kaminski]]
Round the table
- January is gone! But the year is only just started ;)
- [[Jerry]]
  - Met an [[NLP]] master, in the [[neurolinguistic programming]] sense
    - [[family constellations]]
      - facilitated exercise, elicited emotions in several
      - family structure as it influences personality development
      - exercise recommended
    - [[Bert Hellinger]] :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bert_Hellinger
- [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] dealing with team reorgs
  - Also pushing forward on code projects like [[song obsessed]]
    - Looking at http://www.liveplasma.com/ for integration into the site
  - Looking forward to next week — vacation in a cabin!
    - With someone who bakes bread \o/
- [[Peter Kaminski]] connecting GPT and the brain!
  - [[curl]] was hanging
    - wasn’t specifying ‘don’t search full text’ thing, it was super slow
    - full text search doesn’t really seem to work in the Brain API
    - will try to report the bug to tech support
    - the idea is to make gpt call the brain api
    - (on the pros and cons of using the gpt marketplace approach vs server-side calling both the [[brain api]] and the [[openai api]])
  - https://ai101.peterkaminski.wiki/let’s_build_an_api_and_a_gpt,_2023-12-05
- [[Chris Aldrich]]
  - recovering
  - working on a [[book project]] and trying to figure out how that relates to [[neobooks]] as per ongoing conversations
- [[Flancian]]
  - working on worker relations
    - [[aram]] on that at the post
      - shift to more traditional engineering organization structure
      - would like to see more stability soon
      - [[chris aldrich]] contact [[Ben Werdmuller]] from [[indieweb]] now heading up technology at [[pro publica]]
  - but took two days to visit [[Thun]]
FotL Nuggets
- "Assignment for Next Call: Everyone Write a Nugget about Something Memorable from These Calls"
- [[aram zucker-scharff]] Aggregation, Amplification, and Archiving - Fellowship of the Link
  - [[comment section]] is just github issues
  - would love all feedback/responses!
- [[Flancian]] cheated and made my nugget the node [[nuggets]] in the Agora :)
  - https://anagora.org/nuggets is/will be a list of all known nuggets we mention
- [[Chris Aldrich]] on the [[Dahlonega Nugget]], a newspaper in a gold rush town :)
  - His daughter named a stuffed racoon toy she got there "Nugget"
- [[Peter Kaminski]] some feedback on [[nugget]] as a name, from a conversation with other people:
  - too concrete
  - and too "[[nounish]]" and not "[[verbish]]" enough
    - or, too much of an object, and not enough of a process
    - The (Hopi) World According to Whorf
  - what would the verb be?
    - part of it would be an adjective, "composable" (and thence, decomposable)
  - [[Jerry Michalski]] also got some feedback on the focus on the book aspect — maybe it’s good to recenter from the object to the community
    - Note though that verb-centric languages are a minority
  - [[Chris Aldrich]] related dissonance in the note taking space and the tension between different "levels" (e.g. from note to section to book)
    - Everybody’s perspective will be different
    - How do you reuse a whole chapter?
      - [[Jerry]] Chapter size would be too large likely. They might be
  - [[Flancian]] maybe similar
    - and types
    - [[node]] as verb from [[everything2]]
    - [[Jerry]] on mediawiki
      - [[flancian]] on [[semantic mediawiki]]
      - [[Jerry]] some experiences in the past, was turned off by page renaming not rippling back — some clunkyness
      - [[Peter Kaminski]] set it up :)
      - [[Chris Aldrich]] on the tradeoff between flexibility and complexity (and clunkiness)
        
        Example from [[drupal]]
Ben Werdmuller to Propublica
Meta/vocabulary check on whether we want to iterate on the [[nugget]] terminology.
- Pro: something valuable and small-ish; memorable.
- #PK in feedback it seems like people might focus on different attributes; what is key to me from the thing is the [[composability]]
- [[Jerry]] [[mother]] from [[SCOBY]]
- [[legos]] but better?
- planting seeds and [[grafting]]?
- threads and knitting, weaving
- [[quipus]]
  - different
  - but in the same "universe"
- [[pearls]] (as nuggets of value) and [[purls]] (as in [[purl stitch]])
- [[pattern]]?
  - too large
- [[particle]]
- would [[fragment]] describe it?
  - it makes it seem as it’s incomplete
- an [[x]], or a [[nugget]]:
  - is [[complete]] yet [[composable]]
- How does this notion relate to the concept of neobook? Should we use something which is a book-related metaphor?
- #CA or from the idea of playlists, call them "music"
- #CA [[thesaurus]] as ‘repository for treasure’
- [[jewels]] and [[indra’s net]]
- [[trichobezoars]] and [[ambergris]]
- further on grain metaphor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horreum

[[2023-01-24]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Flancian]] [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Michael Grossman]] [[Bentley Davis]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] [[Peter Kaminski]]
[[Jerry Michalski]] and [[Peter Kaminski]] on a productive call about [[massive wiki]] and lots more!
- Next Wednesday is [[Massive Wiki Wednesday]]
- 1h30m later than this call
- Will cover the future of Massive Wiki
Could we have a dashboard of all [[calls]] in our space
- #PK has something Google Sheets based, using Sheets as a grid/table editor
  - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qjSuYW1xChKJNCLK_cyMjJO_Ejc53RDYwRcvtRONLY0/edit
  - Pete is proud of the timezone legend columns at the left
  - stopped updating in Sheets because some boxes and their borders span multiple cells; like overall look, but need a better grid editor that is better at multiple cell boxes
- Present as a neobook?
  - Shared agenda
[[Flancian]]
- Open letters and neobooks
- Looking at open letters in history
- https://bra.in/2jM4Qe
[[Jerry Michalski]]
- How is it different from a viral post
[[Flancian]]
- Intention
- Notion of who is reading
- Some level of meta awareness
- There are some similarities
- Neobooks and how they connect
  - Same shape as an Agora node
  - Open letters are hugely interesting.
  - They get amplified with history
  - Similarly new media
  - The internet evolves similar
[[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
- Also a useful characteristic to think of for both neobooks and open letters is portability
  - +1, and publishing has been a key factor in which open letters became popular/"successful" for a purpose in the past. MLK’s publishing story is interesting
[[Jerry Michalski]]
- composability
- https://bra.in/3jgE2p
- Manifestos - too many authors have robbed them of a degree of their potency?
[[Aram]] an interesting characteristic of open letters:
- in modern times open letters are implied to have many authors, or have been created with a degree of anonymity
- [[letter on corpulence]] :)
- on expanding circles of trust
- [[google docs]] as defacto publishing platform
- #JM about inspirations for [[neobooks]]
  - [[nuggets]] are supposed to be small yet valuable
  - [[indra’s net]]
    - -> [[fritjof capra]]
    - -> the fear
  - [[glass bead game]]
    - -> [[neuromancer]]
  - are [[neobooks]]:
    - [[nuggets]] as objects
      - they have [[metadata]]
      - and [[ordering]]
    - [[linked]]
    - and [[transcluded]]?
  - [[anything missing]]?
    - aggregation?
      - MVP is: a new nugget which transcludes everything in a list
    - Ordering?
    - Contexting?
      - Can be seen as 1. composition and 2. a type system.
    - [[extraclusion]]
      - ‘take this part of this page and publish it there’
      - this sounds a lot like [[push]] in the Agora
    - ability to include/exclude e.g. headers
      - rich contextual snippets — [[oembed]] like
      - embed modes? Full, [[oembed]], brief?
    - would like to conceptually transclude or aggregate a number of pages, and I want that to be the corpus or knowledge base for a chat bot
      - throw a [[lasso]] around a set of nuggets and produce something with them
      - -> like a doc, to begin with simply
      - -> [[fruiting bodies]]
        
        leads back to the notion of multiple language levels on top of languages, which we have covered before
        
        neobooks are Mushrooms from The Big Fungus - https://app.thebrain.com/brain/3d80058c-14d8-5361-0b61-a061f89baf87/51b0b67d-d333-435d-af18-7f0194683289
      - -> on context as user set prompt
    - [[open letters]] in the brain: https://app.thebrain.com/brain/3d80058c-14d8-5361-0b61-a061f89baf87/a030353f-c917-3d29-fc19-70912f8aef80
    - See assignment section below -> let’s all produce one [[nugget]] for next week? something having to do with the fellowship directly or indirectly :)
which direction to go to now?
- [[nugget a week]]
  - [[webmentions]] would be ideal
    - [[bridgy fed]] by [[snarfed]]
      - some concerns about the difficulty of self-hosting
      - for now some consider it a SPOF
      - ideal model could be: something that works like nostr, where you can just point your system to a set of bridgy fed instances and it balances
  - we can start by posting to the mattermost challenge — links to anything
  - [[IETF]]: a protocol is not ready until you have two independent implementations
    - the maybe-problem of [[Mastodon]]
      - [[Mastodon]] copies Twitter too much
      - [[Mastodon]] does not do enough
    - [[twitter is not a microphone]] https://www.schizochronotopia.com/p/on-twitter-we-look-down
      - [[meta]] on [[substack]] as a hosting platform
        
        [[micro.blog]] as federated alternative maybe?
        
        c.f. something open like https://github.com/tsileo/microblog.pub ?
        
        what about the [[payment]] aspect of it? it’s important for many writers.
        
        [[ghost]] is very opinionated engineering
        
        #PK observes that Ghost has a great post editing interface, and the email newsletter distribution works well
        
        [[beehiiv]] is also focused on newsletters
        
        [[buttondown]]
        
        [[aram]] on the challenges of independent tools in this space — in particular the problem of email deliverability (negotiating automated anti-spam false positives as it affects newsletters)

Assignment

Compose a 1 paragraph nugget on something that struck you in a [[FotL]] meeting

[[2023-01-17]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Flancian]] [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Michael Grossman]] [[Bentley Davis]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] [[Peter Kaminski]]
[[flancian]] on [[layoffs]] :(
- and [[Barbarians]], the [[Market]], maybe [[Moloch]])
[[Jerry Michalski]] on [[neobooks]]
- [[Design from Trust]]
  - Like a [[books playlist]]
- Meta on how to write [[neobooks]]
- [[Markdown extension levels]]
  - [[Peter Kaminski]]
  - [[agora protocol]]
  - [[github links]]

[[2023-12-20]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Michael Grossman]] [[Flancian]]
On end of the year and the year as it was
On [[sizzle reels]]
- [[April Rinne]]: https://vimeo.com/885454720?share=copy
- on [[GPTV]] and [[Pika]]
- on [[storyboard generator]]
[[Topics]]
- [[flancian]] has a demo :)
  - as part of [[december adventure]]
  - [[mistral]] integration :)
  - on [[neobooks]]
- [[michael grossman]] thoughts about objects and [[personal archiving]]
  - how to help people [[inventory]] and deal with facts in their lives
  - this is particularly relevant for older people maybe
  - would like to:
    - help people know what they have
    - and their value as it relates with e.g. online markets
    - [[passive marketplace]] and also [[not a marketplace]]
  - [[jerry michalski]]
    - take pictures of spines of books
  - #MG From the Tenement museum, people tell stories attached to objects: https://yourstory.tenement.org/stories
- [[jerry michalski]] [[thinking like a neobook]]
- [[aram zucker-scharff]]
  - working on a demo of a media player and website configuration that lets you build static pages but have them act in a single page application style way, with the particularity that the media player is sticky/always on top while you browse around the site

[[2023-12-06]]

Attending: [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] [[Bentley]] [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Flancian]] [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Michael Grossman]]
Checkins
- Health issues galore
  - [[Slime]] / [[cold]]
  - [[Malaria]]
  - and other [[Parasites]] :(
- [[poop bank]] idea
  - on transporting biomes
  - [[against the grain]]: a book
    - [[cooked]] and [[uncooked]] people
    - [[age old divide]]: [[city]] vs [[countryside]]
      - [[murray bookchin]]
- on sarcastic vs earnest AIs
What’s on our minds?
- [[AIs]] as per the above
- [[Publishing industry]] woes
  - #JM on [[April]]‘s experience: most publishers are picking top 2-3 books to advertise/market and not marketing the others at all
    - she participated in ~100 podcasts.
    - [[book]]: https://fluxmindset.com
- [[Neobook]]:
  - #JM [[Books]] are rollups of [[nuggets]]
  - #CA which licensing are you putting on the books you’re writing?
    - #JM CC0 is the default
  - #CA are you aware of [[OER]]: [[Open Educational Resources]]?
    - https://bra.in/2vNAeW
    - https://boffosocko.com/2018/08/30/the-sixth-r-of-open-educational-resources-oer/
  - [[neobooks]]:
    - [[design from trust]]:
      - https://wiki.openglobalmind.com/projects/jerry’s_nuggets/dft_book_contents_(the_toc)
      - https://link.agor.ai/nuggets-are-really-powerful is interesting
      - on [[types]] of [[nuggets]] and their [[outputs]]
    - and three-four more :)
    - #CA on [[webmentions]] as a framework for communicating derivative work — on getting [[linkbacks]]
    - [[flancian]] [[webfinger]] for communicating about users/authors and [[webmentions]] for communicating about [[nuggets]]?
    - #CA [[marginalia]] using [[indieweb]]: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog
    - #JM https://www.workings.tools/p/wonkish-obsidian-footnotes-as-sidenotes
    - #CA [[the great conversation]]: "the reason you want to read Aristotle and Plato is that they started a conversation we’re still having thousands of years later".
    - #CA https://mitpressonpubpub.mitpress.mit.edu/pub/syyor4ra/release/1#commentary-and-the-talmud as an exam
- [[Agora]] + [[December Adventure]] updates

[[2023-11-29]]

Attending: [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Flancian]]
[[Peter Kaminski]]
- Teaching AI to people.
- Got back into [[NFTs]].
  - Platform for AI art.
  - [[Midjourney]] art.
    - Some of it rises into fine art territory.
- [[Thessos]] [[hic et nunc]] [[thea]]
- [[question for this group]]
  - looking for a new [[mastodon]] server
  - [[flancian]] likes social.coop :D
  - [[chris aldrich]] have you considered building [[activitypub]] into [[massive wiki]]?
    - [[pk]] some concerns with how AP works as a protocol, how the community innovates
      - [[nostr]] seems more promising community wise maybe
      - [[aram zucker-scharff]] interesting; I like the protocol but never felt like they had any community development
      - [[pk]] likes the [[NIP]]s
      - [[activitypub]] is more traditional governance wise
      - [[azs]] interesting, from my perspective it seems like the opposite! take e.g. [[pixelhub]] doing independent development of [[ap]]
      - [[ca]] https://phanpy.social/#/universeodon.com/s/111478703259005044?view=full
      - [[ca]] wordpress is working on being [[activitypub]] compatible
      - [[peter kaminski]] [[ghost]] with [[activitypub]] seems really nice
      - [[flancian]] it seems like it is near mainstream.
        
        planning on adding support to the [[agora]]
        
        [[bouncepaw]] added it to [[betula]]
      - [[azs]] it seems like it’s winning for the ‘event feed’ space
    - [[bluesky]] as compared to [[activitypub]] and [[nostr]]
  - on the pitfalls of being in a small [[mastodon]] instance
    - you don’t know what you don’t know: you’ll only see very few hashtags
  - on the fragmentation of the fediverse due to no platform supporting all content types/activities
    - [[mastodon]]
    - [[pixelfed]]
    - [[peertube]]
    - [[write freely]]
  - on what [[wordpress]] managed to pull off
    - [[automattic]]
    - on the [[tumblr]] [[activitypub]] promise
  - [[ca]]
    - [[micro.blog]] is a good social reader for reading blogs, mastodon, etc.
      - Here’s the reader version of my website in micro.blog: https://micro.blog/chrisaldrich@boffosocko.com
    - I’m thinking some of the problems of supporting all the things are related to [[Ross Ashby]]‘s law of requisite variety: https://www.edge.org/response-detail/27150
  - on [[adaptive interfaces]]
    - quality that comes out of limitations (e.g. twitter surfacing only a tiny text box to write — or index cards)
    - ideal writing interfaces?
      - [[twitter]]
      - [[ghost]]
      - [[typora]]
      - [[bear]]
  - [[factr]]
  - [[sweetcron]] https://code.google.com/archive/p/sweetcron/
    - something like this should exist but it doesn’t seem like it currently does?
  - [[flancian]] on the idea of the [[signup router]] and integrating activitypub streams onto a higher level ‘person’ (or circle?) entity
  - [[ca]] I think all the variations of cross-posting and their directionality are documented here: https://indieweb.org/cross-posting
    - Dec 16-17 [[indieweb camp]] in person: https://indieweb.org/2023/SD

[[2023-11-08]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]], [[Peter Kaminski]], [[Chris Aldrich]], [[Michael Grossman]]
- GPTs new feature from open AI
- https://openai.com/blog/introducing-gpts
  - Aram: Potentially helping out on licencing.
- Alternative being worked on - https://poe.com/login
  - Can be monitized.
- OpenAI is crap at billing and that makes accessing new features that are gated behind a payment level hard.
- https://questy.ai/
- AI Entrepreneurship
  - https://myhub.ai/
  - Thinking about how to start stuff up around AI and how they can get marketing and startup help.
  - Special interest group of AI entrepreneurs.
  - What do we do with large language models and the brain?
  - [[AI + Knowledge Graphs]]
- #push [[TheClimateWeb]]
  - Climate Change materials and research in the Brain app - a commercial product.
  - http://www.theclimateweb.com/
- Climate
  - Chris: Interesting look at some of the problems around informing people and the history here in [[The Parrot and the Igloo: Climate and the Science of Denial]] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56769547-the-parrot-and-the-igloo?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=WHye3QAKxt&rank=1
  - Also check out [[Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming]]
  - Peter: von Humboldt’s observation re:climate is ca. 1819. https://blog.biodiversitylibrary.org/2020/10/alexander-von-humboldt.html#:~:text=It%20was%20also%20in%20Cumana,climate%20change%20and%20destroy%20ecosystems
    - Jerry: https://www.alternet.org/2019/09/alexander-von-humboldt-the-first-person-to-understand-climate-change-more-than-200-years-ago
  - Aram: Some explainers I found on this that were pretty good - https://context.center/topics/climate-change/#explainers
    - And a collection on dealing with misinformation - https://context.center/topics/misinformation/#dealing-with-misinformation
  - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Protocol
  - https://www.versobooks.com/products/2649-how-to-blow-up-a-pipeline
  - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkey_Wrench_Gang
  - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Attali
  - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecotopia
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_strike
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain
  - Good on blair mountain - https://youtu.be/CGGWcFArufA?si=dFZH_Y1ngppfvTWR
- https://www.gawker.com/politics/the-joe-manchin-trolley-problem
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentism_(historical_analysis)

[[2023-10-18]]

Attending: [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Peter Kaminski]], [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]], [[Bentley Davis]], [[Eduardo Ivanec]]
- Possible projects
  - [[social rerere]]
  - [[knowledge commons]] extension for [[obsidian]], [[vscode]]
    - lets you hook up vaults/repos with e.g. [[massive wiki]], [[agora]], other projects in this space.
  - [[plugins]] are the way to go
  - [[chris aldrich]] if you can put together something that solves ‘publishing’ for free (obsidian sync-like)
- We had a ‘split community’ situation today because of Jitsi + Meet
  - We’ll be converging onto Zoom from now on for a few iterations as Jitsi is not working great sometimes, and Meet doesn’t support recordings
  - Expect the link to be:
- More on sync
  - [[synthing]] works quite well with obsidian, and is non-tech-user-friendly
- [[neobooks]] next week
  - on transclusion: https://prosefusion.cloud/git_and_github_notes/pete’s_git_tips_and_tricks/git_tips_and_tricks
  - looking forward to write!

[[2023-10-11]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[Flancian]], [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]], [[Peter Kaminski]], [[Samuel Klein]]
- context.center has gotten hooked up successfully with the Agora!
  - differences with linebreak interpretations
  - Interesting to see a paywalled personal wiki - https://wiki.nikiv.dev/web/search-engines
  - B/c Agora is not looking at JSON it doesn’t pull in the archived articles, but that’s ok it prob shouldn’t.
- discussing #PAIN ~~[[public ai network]]~~ https://publicai.network/
  - (missed the beginning)
  - [[metasj]] mix of closed and open models
    - half of the project is to create a shared vocabulary; half is putting together the community (incl. public institutions) to build a commons
    - national models — e.g. gpt-sw3
    - [[aram zucker-scharff]] hadn’t heard of these national models/sweden case, would love to read more about that
    - [[pk]] + [[metasj]] https://www.ai.se/en/node/81535/gpt-sw3
    - [[aram zucker-scharff]] on the potential of public data loss
- what else do we want to take on today?
  - [[flancian]] [[neobooks]]
  - extending the [[102 great ideas]] project and other friendly-parasitical (symbiotic) projects
  - or extending [[pattern language]]
    - [[metasj]] [[patternity test]] https://wiki.c2.com/?PatternityTest
    - [[Adler]] | [[Alexander]] | [[Gunkel]]
    - [[dewey system]] for pattern languages?
      - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Decimal_Classification replaces it?
      - [[metasj]]
        
        there’s an initiative to normalize the UDC and have it replace the DDS in the US
        
        even people at WorldCat are thinking about it (and they’re not particularly bias-free)
        
        [[bruck fikru]]
  - [[jerry michalski]] what about the decolonizing version of [[102 great ideas]]
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Otlet
  - [[peter kaminski]] current LLM corpuses are large but not very inclusive of libraries
  - are people working towards getting national libraries into LLMs?
    - a lot of things are not yet scanned
    - which proportion made it already?
    - on the titanic battle brewing over copyright/ip
    - see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_Wars_(film)
- on the legal battles that are coming
  - [[pk]] think they might peter out / be settled in private
    - on the possible outcome being [[pay to play]] / [[open ai]] pulling the ladder (and complaining while they do it)
  - [[mistral]]
  - [[brainstorming]] [[open letters]] ;)

[[2023-09-27]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[Flancian]], [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]], [[Chris Aldrich]]
On traffic controllers and Reagan
- Ongoing strikes: writers, actors. There is high public approval for these.
- On the sustainability of the GOP being anti-labour.
- How did the republicans end up being middle-america/"popular" and the democrats end up being "intellectual"?
- What about some new parties for a change ;)
- [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] https://twitter.com/bcmerchant/status/1706898148692762627 - discussion about luddism in hackernews
- On coopting the language of labour.
- [[the making of donald trump]] mentions [[4000 lawsuits]].
- [[Jerry Michalski]] on the weird hybrid of [[obamacare]] and the so called [[death panels]]
  - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_panel
  - do we need a ‘media drumbeat’ to push back against this kind of thing?
  - where?
- on the take "[[podcasts]] have become right wing media"
  - content policies are harder to enforce in audio land as it’s easy to distribute (unlike video) and not too easy to parse/consume/detect (unlike text) (for now?).
- [[vtaiwan]]
  - to reduce flamewars, they removed the reply feature (!)
  - [[chris aldrich]] on newspapers removing comments sections — and their history.
    - [[free speech]] vs [[free reach]]
    - https://www.wired.com/story/free-speech-is-not-the-same-as-free-reach/
  - [[aram]] actually users are still really engaged with comments sections — the reason that most publishers took them down was the moderation burden
    - comments-to-article pipelines were working quite well when they were being run
  - [[flancian]] on the [[moderation commons]]
    - on quote tweets
    - an ongoing proposal: generalizing fediblock
  - [[jerry michalski]]
    - early aol forums
    - name recognition of forum handles
  - [[aram zucker-scharff]]
    - on different approaches to comments
      - [[indieweb]]: you don’t have normal replies to a post, you have to create a new post and link it to what you’re commenting on
      - [[twitter]] and quote tweets
      - [[activitypub]] and [[mastodon]] design decisions (in particular not supporting)
[[neobooks]]
- one of Jerry’s collaborators uses google docs instead of obsidian
- [[chris aldrich]] how do you leave signposts to see resources elsewhere? e.g. in wikipedia, in an agora, etc.
- [[jerry michalski]] maintains a neighborhood visibility aspect in his brain
- [[chris aldrich]] [[zettelkasten]] has this in the sense of always having physical neighbors to the current index card
- [[102 great ideas]] https://boffosocko.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/102-Ideas.jpg
- [[great books of the western world]] https://books.google.com/books?id=p0gEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA92&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false
- on feeding the [[noosphere]]
  - is it a good term?
Check ins
Shared projects
- #push [[fotl projects]]
  - [[intertwingle]] our notes together
  - write [[neobooks]]

[[2023-09-20]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[Flancian]], [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]], [[Peter Kaminski]]
Check ins
- [[Jerry Michalski]] would be interested in being hired for more presentations/speeches
  - On [[cyborg]] as a term, some people apparently object to the term?
  - ([[Jitsi]] melted down at this point)
- [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] on [[Cyborgness]] - video cued to the specific part of the discusion - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvYcunuF3Eo&t=1709s
  - On babies reaching into ipads
  - [[digital retinas]]
Useful open source video editing with
- [[OpenShot]] - https://www.openshot.org/
- avidemux
- Drop into Quicktime
[[flancian]] presentation (maybe): https://anagora.org/go/agora-slides
- three facets
  - a space - the definition of an agora the one best known
    - public, mostly virtual, but has semi public sub-spaces (stoas). Different groups met in the different spaces and allowed people to join in and be part of something.
    - Go beyond the commons concern of the market
  - A distributed knowledge graph
    - Give it a list or repositories or resources and the agora will try to mash them together, find connections, find patterns, connect them.
  - A social network
    - an integration between social graphs and knowledge graphs and hopefully will make it part of the fediverse and t/f give it a clearer part of the social network concept.
- Both a vision and a hypothesis
  - pro-social subsets of the internet would benefit from wide availability of a free [[interlay]] (as in the [[underlay project]]) provisioned and governed by a community as a commons.
  - For the common good.
  - Follow the principles of a commons.
  - Develop tools and instructions to make it more likely that such a connective layer arrises with these characteristics.
  - The agora is not good enough yet to be the connective layer but aims to be a bootstrap.
- Note taking, wiki building, web annotating, communities, seem to have unique opportunity at hand. Possible to self-organize in cooperative groups and set up ways to federate within a commons.
- Find common patterns and exploit them using the system where we can.
- Design principles
  - Simple as possible
  - Leverage existing conventions and formats
  - bootstrap and build better ones from the bootstrap
- Key characteristics
  - free software enabling a community to provision a basic knowledge commons
  - requires little of would be integrators and give back generously to participating communities.
  - inclusive and makes use of existing conventions, formats, tools, and networks for as long as practical.
- Architecture
  - Agora Bridge
    - Software
    - User repositories
    - Social media
    - …
    - Imports users’ repositories every 30s and handles them. Usually git. Takes MassiveWiki and Social Media
  - Agora root repository
    - List of repositories
    - Configuration and bootstrap procedures
    - Base content
  - Agora Server
    - Software
    - Web interface
    - Interlink procedures
    - Accessed by browser
    - Python and Flask server
    - Points to a root repository and with those resources attempt to find the patterns and pull out nodes which then get served to the user.
    - May present notes on the same node by different users across different contexts.
- Node
  - High level entity
  - Location on the knowledge graph
  - Can hold information from multiple users and join different files
  - Node can have Subnodes by different authors.
  - Links in Nodes will be seen and link those nodes together at the Agora level.
  - Nodes are social
  - See anagora.org/nodes for visualization
  - Common patterns:
    - [[Digital Garden Note]]
    - [[Blog Post]]
    - [[Personal Wiki Page]]
    - [[Journal]]
    - [[Node Club]]
  - You can agree on a slice for a concept and then right away start coordinating - exactly like using a hashtag
    - Socail media works with hashtags to integrate into this concept.
    - Agora lets you hashtag anywhere
- Stoas
  - Social too
  - Locaitons that act as semi public spaces
  - Set up a hedge doc that is totally anonymous.
  - Will get processed into the Angora within 30 sec.
  - Etherpad and Jitsi both can get pulled in to a Stoas.
- Heavily uses iFrames whenever possible
- Default empty pages are a call to action
- How to join!
  - Take notes in your fav tool
  - Publish in platform - usually git.
  - Let an Agora maintainer know about it.
- Wikilinks everywhere
  - Edges are [[wikilinks]] which refer to other nodes as found in volunteered subnodes
- Idea of composing notes
  - Some notes have special behavior
  - [[go]] notes - #go url or [[go/foo]]
  - [[pull]] - bring in the resource at bar with #pull bar
  - [[push]] - push out the resource to foo with #push foo

[[2023-09-06]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[Chris Aldrich]], [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]], [[David Pickrell]], [[Flancian]], [[Michael Grossman]]
Introductions
- [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
  - Lead engineering for years on [[Pressforward]]
  - tool making experience as it interacts with the indyweb
  - current project: how we link note tools together. personally using [[eleventy]] based [[context.center]]
- [[Flancian]]
  - welcome [[David]]!
  - SRE by profession here, knowledge commons/graphs tinkerer by hobby :)
  - [[agora]] ~ https://anagora.org is my main project in this space
- [[Michael Grossman]]
  - designer - editor - archivist - activist
  - interested in [[information meritocracy]]
  - working on a platform named [[factor]]
  - hanging out in [[ogm]] for a while
  - https://factr.com
  - https://collaborative.tech
  - worked in magazines previously
    - maybe the [[20th century]] was the [[magazine century]] — there weren’t many before then, and it looks like there won’t be many after it
- [[David Pickrell]]
  - itinerant "software salesman" :)
  - focused on helping people solve problems with software
  - one pitch for the group: son-in-law works on book.io which is a publishing environment that tries to empower authors
    - unique covers for each of the books (NFT space, in the cardano chain)
    - they release unique digital books at 20-30 USD a piece
    - moving to do audio
  - long time [[brain]] user
What’s on people’s minds?
- [[Michael Grossman]] curious to ask David about book.io — there are public domain works with many covers, how does that work?
  - artists working with GenAI
- [[Jerry Michalski]] is book.io a scarcity play or a publisher which is trying to be useful to creators?
  - it tries to be the second
  - targets mostly self-publishing authors currently
  - every time a book gets resold, the author gets a percentage
- [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
  - write professionally, would like to use editors more, and would not like to use them for free.
  - would like to use such a platform to give participating editors a cut of produced works.
- [[Chris Aldrich]]
  - reviewed some books in book.io
    - there is no translator information for translations of public domain books, e.g. [[anna karenina]]
Presentation on the Agora?
- 20th of September — the date is set! :D
Fediverse and Agora integration in the works
- note taking in the fediverse: exploring this space
- [[AZS]] don’t know anything in this space.
  - obsidian can push to the agora, then the agora can provide activitypub services
- [[Chris Aldrich]] there is potential for UI innovation in this space, something beyond streams
- wikilinks everywhere :D
[[does chatgpt obsolete notetaking]]
- [[AZS]] typical AI-disruption-take.
  - These are tools for thinking and not just for ingestion.
  - our computers/mobile phones already turn us into cyborgs; AI just adds another layer to this
  - human intervention is what gives these things/outputs a value
- [[CA]] note taking is a ratchet
  - "chat-gpt, build me something like the ethereum network to distribute books"
    - we’re not anywhere near there yet.
    - "what is the next thing", in the sense of Einstein in 1904, is not something that this level of AI can solve.
  - [[JM]] unclear on whether LLMs can only regurgigate known things or can actually improve on them — compare with e.g. alphago coming up with novel moves
- [[Michael Grossman]] podcast: https://a16z.simplecast.com/episodes/a-true-second-brain-xrODaBD2
  - on [[Nat Eliason]]
  - being able to take notes over years and put them into a model which you can then query/search
  - a certain type of note taking will be much more useful than in the old days
  - surfacing the note that somebody you trust has shared with you is what’s golden
- [[Jerry Michalski]] when Google came out, we outsourced our memories to Google
  - proponent of humans-in-the-loop
  - [[AZS]] [[technology is a tool, not an outcome]]
- [[David Pickrell]] recording/transcription services you can add to meetings.
  - using [[ChatGPT]] can help get a sense of material but might not help actually learn that material
  - [[JM]] [[story threads]]
- [[AZS]] wikipedia is essentially the biggest collection of knowledge, yet people also get degrees
chat / link dump

[[2023-08-30]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[Chris Aldrich]], [[Flancian]], [[Samuel Klein]], [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]], [[Michael Grossman]]
Check ins
- [[Chris Aldrich]]
  - Took the full July off and did a family cruise to Alaska :)
  - Not as rainy as expected, gorgeous scenery
  - Q: did you keep a journal/notebook?
  - A: did, but haven’t done anything with it yet
- [[Jerry Michalski]] One question that came up in a recent conversation: now that AI is around, do we need to still bother to take notes/curate links? :)
  - Yes :D
  - [[Chris Aldrich]] AI as it is now is interesting but it lacks:
    - a [[compass]].
    - a [[ratchet]].
      - it can aggregate/conglomerate but it won’t choose a solution or direction for you.
- [[Flancian]]
  - Read [[Engelbart]] over the summer and it was very interested in the context of GenAI developments/this conversation
    - https://social.coop/@flancian/110720124777315271
    - Augmenting Human Intellect: A Conceptual Framework By Douglas C. Engelbart October 1962
      - https://via.hypothes.is/https://dougengelbart.org/content/view/138 (Copy with Hypothesis annotations)
- [[Samuel Klein]]
  - [[e. e. kim]]]
  - on the potential of [[marginalia]] and [[inter-linealia]] (?)
  - Purple numbers: https://eekim.com/software/purple/purple.html
  - and the use of color maybe?
    - culturally dependent
    - #JM uses purple for opinions and yellow to call attention to things
Topics

[[2023-08-16]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[Flancian]], [[V]], [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]], [[Michael Grossman]]
Check ins
- Welcome [[V]]!
  - [[V]] loves federated systems, has been building those since the 2000s/2010s
    - Neighbours with Jerry!
- [[Michael Grossman]]
  - Doing well
  - Thoughts on living on confiscated land
- [[Jerry Michalski]]
  - On the concept of [[wokeness]] as it’s weaponized by the right
  - Worried about how the concept of [[woke]] is maybe seen as toxic also by some progressives now?
  - On the "anti-reclaiming" of terms
- [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
  - On providing sources and timelines relevant to things
  - As a way to reverse [[context collapse]] and how it relates to the goals of the fellowship
- [[Flancian]]
  - On the [[Agora]] as a prototype for "simply" federating ideas and definitions
  - And precisely to push back against concept collapse and understand our points of contact and also of divergence
- [[V]]
  - This conversation reminds me of [[dialectics]]
  - The Agora can be seen as a tool to enable dialectics (thesis antithesis synthesis) / help communities go through this process
- [[Jerry Michalski]]
  - [[argumentation theory]] maybe generalizes this
  - other tools in the [[debate]] space
- [[Flancian]] on agreeing on definitions and more generally on procedures to resolve definitions
  - Maybe on defining a [[default commons]] as an advantage for a group that tries this
- [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
  - The libertarian concept of finding an answer is what we get by default nowadays: different websites compete to provide the "best answer"
  - But there is more than one answer to each problem based on context/expected use
  - [[V]] on contextual ranking in the Agora: ranking results based on relevance for your social context
  - Maybe thinking of [[positive opt-in community filter bubbles]]
- [[Michael Grossman]]
  - On delegating filtering to friends/communities as it relates to [[liquid democracy]]
  - On [[owning your social graph]]
on [[liquid democracy]] :)
- https://bra.in/9jYawA
- https://anagora.org/liquid-democracy
- [[colorado]] experiment
- on its potential side effects:
  - [[depolarization]]
  - promoting higher dimensionality thinking
  - promoting thinking about interesting problems in categories
  - promoting thinking about relative expertise of individuals
[[Jerry Michalski]]
- on [[yelling louder]] "forcing the stack"
- on [[darvo]]
  - [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
    - ah, this is just fascist politicking as defined in stuff like https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism
    - [[small government]] usually means withdrawing support from causes
[[Jerry Michalski]] on [[five minute universities]]
- lightning classes: 5 minutes for presenting, 5 minutes for questions, follow up conversation happens later
- video on [[the great transformation]]
- Jerry Michalski says: https://bra.in/2qa2BE
- Interested in making timelines with 11ty? [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] is looking for testers of https://github.com/AramZS/timelinety based on https://web3isgoinggreat.com/

[[2023-08-09]]

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[Flancian]], [[Peter Kaminski]], [[Michael Grossman]]
[[climate change]]
- https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/08/02/southamerica-record-winter-heat-argentina-chile/
- [[global citizenship]]
  - prepare now to give climate refugees: an identity, a nationality, internet connection, internet services
  - what does citizenship mean now and in the future?
  - snow crash vs star trek
  - cory doctorow’s [[walkaway]]
    - also [[catalog of missing devices]]
  - on modelling solutions to big problems
  - https://blogs.worldbank.org/dev4peace/how-many-years-do-refugees-stay-exile
    - on averages
      - [[The End of Average]]: How We Succeed in a World That Values Sameness (2016)
      - on (jet) fighter seats
      - on the old belief that people used to live very little
  - on cancers :(
    - When did people start understanding what cancer was?
      - https://chat.openai.com/share/3d3e3f93-9449-420a-914f-bc27c4912a49
        
        In the late 1850’s, "Virchow was the first to correctly link the origin of cancers from otherwise normal cells, believing that cancer is caused by severe irritation in the tissues (the ‘chronic irritation theory’). Not all of his work was correct, however. He also proposed that cancer spreads around the body by the spread of the irritation in liquid form."
      - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5665122/)
[[flancian]] progress on https://link.agor.ai — ready for your perusal and/or joining :)
how do we take the outputs of all the calls we’re in and do more with them?
- [[peter kaminski]] working on some automation for downloading e.g. zoom call logs
- Vincent (who?) is working in this space as well
- [[dogsheep]] and tools to help users get out of [[walled gardens]]
[[peter kaminski]] some links to share and a question :)
Stowe Boyd has gotten deep into [[Obsidian]]: https://medium.com/workings/more-on-tufte-style-sidenotes-db61d3d8dce0

| | Openness | How well does it play with other tools? How interoperable and customisable is it? | F/OSS. Use open standards. Has an API. Import/Export Allow 3rd party plugins. Available on all OSs, platforms. Supports structured data | | Note-making | How good is it as a note-making tool? | Good outliner (easy indent/outdent, reorder, fold/zoom…) Atomic note structure, block references. Zettlekasten support. | | Writing/Publishing | How good is it as a writing & publishing tool? | WYSIWYG, zen writing environment/design, editing feature set, seamless publishing system to Web, Social. | | Idea discovery | Does it help users organise and (re)discover relevant notes? | Backlinks, Good search, AI-driven content discovery | | User-friendliness | How easy is it to start benefiting from it, off the shelf? | New user can get started and get benefits without taking courses, reading 3 books and 23 blog posts, or installing a dozen plugins | | Power | How powerful, adaptable & configurable is it? | Lots of features, highly customisable, many plug-ins, queryable knowledge, etc. | | Multiplayer | Allows teamwork | Group-based collaboration: groups, permissions, workflows, version control, commenting, moderation… | | Help | Is it easy to find high-quality documentation and answers to common questions? | Well-organised onboarding, documentation & FAQ system. | | Community | Is there a supportive community around the tool | Helpful community, active 3rd party developers, etc. | | Cost | How expensive is the tool | Free, or at least a v. useful free version in a freemium model | | Data sovereignty | Who owns your data? | Your files on your PC. | 20:35 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:BlueSky protocol 20:35 Aram Zucker-Scharff Aram Zucker-Scharff says:oops wrong paste Aram Zucker-Scharff says: https://kolektiva.social/about

20:36 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says: https://blueskyweb.xyz/blog/10-18-2022-the-at-protocol

20:37 me says: ctzn.one — now down probably 20:37 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:Paul Frazee? 20:38 me says:yes: http://anagora.org/pfrazee

20:39 Aram Zucker-Scharff Aram Zucker-Scharff says: https://paulfrazee.medium.com/back-to-basics-what-is-the-point-of-decentralization-a495123a1fd7

Aram Zucker-Scharff says: https://context.center/topics/cryptocurrency/#activity-pub

20:41 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:small note: I’m Twitter user # 509 Jerry Michalski says:when it was just an SMS service 😃 20:43 Aram Zucker-Scharff Aram Zucker-Scharff says:😃 20:43 me says:Pleroma me says:Lemmy me says:Misskey? 20:44 Aram Zucker-Scharff Aram Zucker-Scharff says: https://github.com/misskey-dev/misskey

Aram Zucker-Scharff says: https://twitter.com/Chronotope/status/1587511147137486848

20:45 me says:some interesting questions in this space: me says:1. what is the biggest overall activitypub instance? me says:2. what is the biggest which isn’t mastodon based? 20:46 Chris Aldrich Chris Aldrich says:I think mastodon.social is the largest instance 20:46 me says:3. how large could a non-mastodon instance feasibly scale up to be currently? 20:46 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:advertising is the colonizing force of capitalism in internet spaces 20:47 Aram Zucker-Scharff Aram Zucker-Scharff says:Like cohost.org is sort of pushing in that direction as well Aram Zucker-Scharff says: https://pinboard.in/ also sort of monetizes that way 20:48 me says: https://social.coop

20:48 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:guilds —> unions Jerry Michalski says:mutual aid —> cooperatives 20:50 Aram Zucker-Scharff Aram Zucker-Scharff says:? https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4467218-travelling-brothers?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=wM2PoCC5zD&rank=12 ? 20:51 me says:anti disintermediation me says:crypto is a convoluted way to define a trust root (in most applications, it seems) me says:"what are the platforms and protocols that we will take for granted 100 years from now" me says:counter anti disintermediation 😉 me says:citation needed 😉 20:54 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:full title: Travelling Brothers: The Six Centuries’ Road from Craft Fellowship to Trade Unionism (1979) Jerry Michalski says:A Collective Bargain: Unions, Organizing, and the Fight for Democracy (2020) ? 20:55 me says: flancia.org/mine/flanbook is a bit about this — coopting the machinery of capitalism for the purpose of advancing the revolution 20:56 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:oooo! 20:56 me says:commons me says:enclosure of the commons == another manifestation of capitalist colonization 20:57 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:my notes from this call: https://bra.in/3pWnJo

20:58 Aram Zucker-Scharff Aram Zucker-Scharff says:Ah i was thinking of Fight Like Hell by Kim Kelly Aram Zucker-Scharff says:I’ll read that! :walking:

2022-06-24

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Chris Aldrich]] [[flancian]]

Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9aRBtTqLjw

Notes

Discussion of [[go links]]
- Demo in anagora.org :)
- [[go/fotl/chat]] and [[go/fellowship of the link/chat]] both now work
Time?
- 11am Pacific on Fridays?
  - Could conflict with date nights in Europe :)
- [[11am Pacific on Thursdays]]?
  - Let’s try this!
[[shared resources]]
- [[Chris Aldrich]] putting up something in the site
  - add a go link :)
- here’s what we’re doing, here’s where we’re going, here is how to join
- let’s use [[chat]] for coordinating
what’s a high leverage topic for the three of us?
- [[Chris Aldrich]] what’s pareto optimal/the 20% we could tackle first?
- [[Jerry Michalski]] has been working on a [[shared vision]]
- [[flancian]] [[2025]]
[[Jerry Michalski]]
- how to build a "webring" for meetings, documents about projects
- [[obsidian]] with [[excalidraw]] done by a friend
  - diagrams.net is also good
- [[open global mind]] ~ [[ogm]]
  - [[flotilla]] -> [[federation]]
  - what do you see from the top of your mast?
  - [[multi plane camera]]
  - [[map of the future]] ~ [[mosaic]]
- [[flancian]] [[agora]] plus iframes for mvp of the above
- [[Chris Aldrich]] standard based, using each item as a block
  - [[oembed]]?
  - tools tends to target one tool only, lots of duplication
  - [[activitypub]]
    - [[Chris Aldrich]] over designed it, over specified it, few people understand it completely
      - [[aaron parecki]]
    - [[mastodon]] as the de facto standard rather than ActivityPub itself
      - we can bridge to mastodon or pleroma, do not need to reimplement it
    - what about [[rss]]?
      - [[Jerry Michalski]] does this not break transclusion?
      - How can we prevent the unproductive RSS/Atom wars of the early blogosphere?
  - [[Jerry Michalski]] [[least common denominator]]
    - problem or potential?
    - [[tbl]] simplified [[sgml]] and made it break gracefully
    - [[resiliency]]
  - [[cory doctorow]] on the [[tragedy of the commons]]
    - [[modus operandi]] and [[throughput]] amazing
    - [[Chris Aldrich]]: cory has a [[commonplace book]] essentially, see https://pluralistic.net/2021/01/13/two-decades/
    - [[flancian]]
      - [[adversarial interoperability]] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/adversarial-interoperability
      - [[catalog of missing devices]]
from chat unprocesssed
- Jerry Michalski dice:transclusion
- Chris Aldrich dice:How to create a Read Fork Write Merge Web?

2022-06-17

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[metasj]], [[Mathew Lowry]], [[flancian]]
(joined late) (chat history)
[[Jerry Michalski]] and [[mathew]] on [[medium]]
#push [[Mathew Lowry’s chapter]] for [[pkg book]]
- https://mathewlowry.medium.com/from-personal-to-social-knowledge-graphs-a-vision-statement-draft-fc86ef4f7022
- outsourcing commenting to [[hypothesis]]
- [[web annotation standard]]
- [[activitypub]]
- [[activitypub]] to [[web annotation standard]] bridge?
- [[Jerry Michalski]] [[nuggets]] in the [[big fungus]]
- [[Mathew Lowry]] [[nuggets]] as cross-linked executive summaries
[[fediverse]]
- [[Jerry Michalski]] what’s the simplest possible example to get going on comments and annotations on the fediverse?
- what would be the mvp?
  - [[mastodon]] server?
  - [[mattermost]] channel
  - how to [[interlink]]?
[[metasj]]
- challenge: take a [[global commons]] that you care aobut, and scope out its potential full extent
- [[Jerry Michalski]] take a [[pattern language]] that already exist
  - (lists three)
    - [[liberating structures]]
      - https://www.liberatingstructures.com/1-1-2-4-all/
    - Peeragogy
    - Wise Democracy Pattern Language
    - chat bots: [[five whys]]
  - …and turn them into [[commons]] shared materials and instrument
  - [[pattern languages]] == [[distilled wisdom]]
  - from patterns to praxis
  - a platform for pattern languages: this was tried on top of [[mediawiki]] [[smw]]
    - [[metasj]] [[wikibase]] >> [[smw]]
  - [[instrumentalize]] > [[instrument]]?
    - Integrate
    - Arborize
    - what’s the verb when mycelium sprouts a mushroom?
    - [[fruiting]]
  - [[metasj]] tried to put [[ward]] and [[alexander]] in contact to discuss agreeing on a platform
  - [[Jerry Michalski]] [[engelbart]] struggled with this
  - a strategy to make everybody facilitating facilitations a better facilitator
  - leads to a global memory artifact
- [[mathew]] what’s the end goal of this envisioning/scoping exercise?
  - [[metasj]] a couple of measures of scope:
    - proportion of total human societal interaction affected in a given year
    - [[Jerry Michalski]] (ways of measuring global impact)
    - empowering people
- [[Jerry Michalski]] [[applause in sign language]]
  - used in [[occupy movement]]
  - other gestures used: disagree, blocking, speak louder
  - [[flancian]] related: [[free, fair and alive]] [[anarchist cybernetics]]
  - [[reading club]] on [[dawn of everything]] in [[ogm]]
    - -> [[node club]]
- [[Mathew Lowry]]
  - tools to better capture knowledge produced from conferences/workshops and share it with the world
- [[Jerry Michalski]] [[idea commons]]
  - pastors.com is where a lot of evangelical preachers get what they say on Sundays (!)
  - open source sermon central
- [[flancian]]
  - pattern repository, people router
  - alternatives
- [[flancian]]
  - [[counter anti disintermediation]] leading back to distributed systems and liquid democracy
    - maybe could yield a metric w.r.t. degree of distrubution of structures of power
  - [[complementary cognitive artifacts]]
    - maybe yields a metric w.r.t. resiliency to losing
  - composed effects of higher efficiency in cooperation, [[coordination problem]]
- chat
  - unschooling, regenerative agriculture, traffic calming…
  - ice:bootstrapping: ways to make people vectors for a new approach
  - patterning: process for helping people abstract their work to its full potential extent
  - which will usually overlap w/ the full-extent of other existing/smaller patterns
  - matchmaking: people who could work on the same vectors
  - https://www.clearerthinking.org/
[[action items]]
- [[flancian]]
  - upload past recording to youtube
[[metasj]] and [[flancian]] 1:1
- [[building bridges]], [[wormholes]]
- [[workshops]] and [[facilitating]] of world building
- [[future casting]] -> [[incepting]]
- [[wikimedia]] + [[web annotations]]
  - [[diego de la hera]]
  - there is an extension that makes them worked well together
  - how does the community moderate annotations?
  - [[flancian]] default: the site sets the default ranking function for annotations. and perhaps some annotations are community owned, wiki like?

2022-06-09

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[diego de la hera]], [[flancian]], [[Chris Aldrich]]
Inviting others
- [[flancian]] been inviting people already, but would be like to use some kind of policy?
- [[Jerry Michalski]] suggest to use the Mattermost to coordinate; use this space to consider together our goals and attract others like this
  - [[mattermost]] https://chat.collectivesensecommons.org/agora/channels/ogm-fellowship-of-the-link
- let’s use the list of people in the [[doc]] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RAourQe_MKh0uWomLsS_V5ea3zm30g8paE49X56jIHs/edit
  - to brainstorm on who to invite if you want to discuss a priori
- [[flancian]] invited Dan because of his interested in the space + his experience with web standards
[[Jerry Michalski]]
- [[web]] https://www.fellowshipofthelink.org/
- who wants admin? :)
- we could also start groups in social networks, e.g. linkedin
  - [[flancian]] [[mastodon]]?
  - got stuck in [[choosing an instance]]
    - [[diego de la hera]] mastodon.social could be seen as the default
    - (instance delegation could be interesting, web of trust like)
    - http://www.unmung.com/mastoview is a tool for helping to choose Mastondon instances
  - [[diego de la hera]] lack of defaults as a hindrance to adoption here, in the indieweb as well
  - [[Jerry Michalski]] [[barry schwartz]] https://bra.in/4jXVP2
    - [[the tyranny of choice]]
    - [[schelling point]]
  - [[Chris Aldrich]] with more choice you usually get increasing complexity
    - you are given so much choice it’s almost too much (in the indieweb)
    - [[Jerry Michalski]] templates, walkthroughs add a lot of value
    - [[Chris Aldrich]] you need either a lot of time or people motivated because they’re building business
    - [[peter kaminski]] introduced [[Jerry Michalski]] to [[obsidian]]
    - on straightforward vs powerful tools
    - [[diego de la hera]] on the power of forks
      - e.g. [[Chris Aldrich]]‘s setup is something we could fork to bootstrap a new user’s environment
      - people have copy/pasted Chris’s website already, full pages at a time :)
  - [[flancian]] [[map of the fediverse]]
longer term goals / brainstorming / dream sharing
- [[Jerry Michalski]]
  - series of projects revolving around these issues
    - [[open global mind]], started 2y ago
      - part of a [[flotilla]] with other organizations
      - 8am pacific, standing call for [[ogm]]
    - [[rel8]]
      - why is it so hard to share, integrate notes — build arguments?
        
        -> [[argument mapping]]?
        
        [[argumentation theory]]
        
        [[stephen toulmin]] -> [[toulmin model of argument]]
      - [[the big fungus]] == https://thebigfungus.org
      - interested in the scaffolding, infrastructure to share ideas
    - [[think camp]] funds startups in this space
      - "profitable businesses that feed the [[commons]]"
  - read an interesting article today, conservative point of view with good arguments even though some disagreeable premises
    - how do we put this article up to scrutiny and learn from it together?
      - -> [[web annotations]]?
      - [[gyuri lajos]]
        
        [[Jerry Michalski]] let’s have a group sync with Gyuri?
        
        [[Chris Aldrich]] trails are related to [[vannevar bush]]‘s
  - wishlist for [[fotl]]: how do these parts fit together?
    - how do we make it so that our notes provide maximum utility, spread through the big fungus
- [[Chris Aldrich]] would like to focus on how to
  - make it all work together
  - make the systems be easy to use
  - make something that is as simple to understand as facebook?
  - I’d like to see [[commonplace books]] that can "talk" to each other.
  - "the [[stream]] flows by too fast"
    - turning streams into gardens
    - [[neil]] from the Agora has great writing on streams vs gardens, how they relate to each other - https://doubleloop.net/
[[john borthwick]] at [[betaworks]] has funding for small projects [[think camp]]
Watch parties
- [[connection series]]
  - watch these, take notes/diagrams and share/interop
  - -> [[books, paintings, movies, ideas that shaped many people’s lives]]
    - https://bra.in/5pxdW6
- [[dan whaley]] youtube annotations are a side project / hobby
  - [[docdrop]] https://docdrop.org/
[[diego de la hera]]
- web annotations were mentioned; thought of two connections
  - [[peter hagen]] -> [[lindylearn]] https://lindylearn.io/ and specifically https://annotations.lindylearn.io/new/
    - social platform where you would find what other people are annotating and join the conversation
    - provides a discovery layer for what others are reading and thinking about
  - [[chrome]] is also tackling annotations
  - [[worldbrain]], [[memex]]?
  - it seems like here we want to work more on the level of how to connect different annotation tools at a (federated?) layer
    - perhaps what we need is an integration device at this layer, e.g. [[wikilinks]]
Timing
After the event, [[Mathew Lowry]]: https://doc.anagora.org/Kz1qvywQRjq9nZ-ElXlHUg?view

Matterbridge site for group communication: https://chat.collectivesensecommons.org/agora/tips

https://collectivesensecommons.org/

Mathew Lowry mentioned [[Mysilio]]

https://github.com/mysilio-co
(https://mysilio.com/) a "thinking tool"/platform that uses [[Solid]] - funded by [[Foundation for the Web]]; has a social media tool and a digital garden

[[David McRaney]] (twitter) has several books:

[[How Minds Change]] #books/wanttoread/2
[[You’re Not So Smart]] #books/wanttoread/2
[[You are Now Less Dumb]]

2022-06-02

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[diego de la hera]], [[flancian]], [[Chris Aldrich]]
Our personal history
- Diego en Córdoba
- Jerry Michalski pasos por sudamérica, ahora en Portland
- Eduardo de Buenos Aires, ahora en Suiza
Relationships locally and globally
Jerry: [[open global mind]] meeting just before
- Send email to sociate@gmail.com to sign up :)
([[Chris Aldrich]] joined, introductions)
- [[Jerry Michalski]]
  - [[the brain]]
  - [[chris]] any shares in the company?
  - not anymore
  - do you have backups?
  - occasionally :) but the format is a big bag of [[json]] objects, not bery interoperable
    - wishlist: [[open global mind]] platform instead
- [[diego de la hera]]
  - hypothes.is user, contributor as the maintainer of the unofficial extension for firefox; working with [[wikimedia foundation]]
  - met Chris through hypothes.is
- [[Chris Aldrich]]
  - background: biomedical and electrical engineer, been on the web since the early 90s
  - [[indieweb]] / https://indieweb.org
  - [[open web backup]], strong belief in owning your own domain, your own data, your own identity
  - done work on genetics, but germane: spent a lot of time in the [[entertainment industry]] as it overlaps with the open web
  - massive amount of data
  - history, culture as intertwined with knowledge tools
  - current focus on wikis and note taking tools
[[Jerry Michalski]] wishful thinking for a design in this space
- it should allow all users to view data through their chosen tools
- sometimes you change tools as you shift what you need to do (they are good at different modes of thinking)
- [[planes]]
  - [[multi plane camera]], [[disney history]]
    - similar to layers in photoshop/gimp
  - bought https://www.playnz.dev
- [[kumu]] == https://kumu.io
  - is it open source?
- [[jupyter notebooks]] are an inspiration
- https://thebigfungus.org
  - [[leaf cutting ants]]
  - ([[diego de la hera]] worked with them)
  - [[symbiotic relationship]] with the fungus
- [[diego de la hera]] we mentioned a diversity of tools here:
  - closed and open
  - wiki like and otherwise
  - …but as long as these platforms provide this data in a documented way, do we need a central tool? wouldn’t collaboration emerge even without a central tool?
  - [[jerry]] +1 — the big fungus is a metaphor for the result of this collaboration. But [[playnz]] might be an [[mvp]]/[[demo]] or just an experiment/playground for interoperability.
  - are these tools perhaps already playns?
    - they might be, yes.
  - [[Chris Aldrich]] [[progressive enhancement]] is key
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_enhancement
    - how can we take all these tools and build an architecture that supports progressive enhancement?
    - we start with plain text as the base, then you can add things like markdown/html, then you add photos/media
  - [[flancian]] problems and opportunities:
    - exploring hub architecture vs full graph integration
    - lossiness as you interop through tools, playns
    - complexity of integrations
      - [[Chris Aldrich]] pairwise compatibility is a nightmare
  - [[translation as a service]]
    - [[pandoc]]
    - [[Chris Aldrich]] [[paas]] == [[pandoc as a service]]
  - [[markdown as lingua franca]]
- [[Jerry Michalski]]
  - [[mapping tools for thinking]] in [[jerry’s brain]]
  - also an amazing list of people
  - book: [[the extended mind]]
- interest in the [[crystallization]] of what we know together
  - contributing to the same lists -> [[collective action]]
  - [[diego de la hera]] the relationship between these efforts and [[wikimedia]] projects
    - [[intermingle]] / preservation of voices
    - [[ward cunningham]]! [[fedwiki]]
    - Ward’s calls
  - [[Chris Aldrich]] we should invite [[mark bernstein]], [[tinderbox]]
[[fellowship of the link]] as it relates to other projects
[[diego de la hera]] isn’t the web as a whole what we need? :)
- [[html is the lingua franca of our time]]
- [[web mentions]]
  - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webmention
  - https://brid.gy/
  - [[indieweb]] has examples of this working
    - [[acid test]] of interoperability
    - [[swat0]] https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/federatedsocialweb/wiki/SWAT0
  - search engine for tagged/linked trusted content
    - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonplace_book
    - intimacy gradient
  - [[delicious]]
    - #c19 == [[19th century]]
  - [[technorati]]
[[lists]] we could assemble:
- people in this space
  - the above
  - [[tantek Çelik]]
  - "how can we build this with as little technology as possible"
- projects in this space (knowledge tools)
- recurrent calls in this space
  - https://lu.ma/toolsforthoughtrocks
- possible [[lingua francas]]
[[Chris Aldrich]] "The world lost so much because Vannevar Bush didn’t use the word commonplace book in his article As We May Think."
- how can we take open tools like [[logseq]], or semi-open like [[obsidian]], and create a reusable store
- [[blot]] == https://blot.im
- [[granary]] == https://granary.io/ for translating between silo formats as well as feed formats [[rss]], [[atom]], [[h-feed]], [[JSONfeed]], etc.
https://bra.in/3vGWLa
https://bra.in/7v2NRe

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2022-06-24

Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Chris Aldrich]] [[flancian]]

Video

Notes

2022-06-17

2022-06-09

2022-06-02